UK/CW Uniform Q

[Dandelion]

Hi all,

While my source material on British uniforms is fair up until 41, it is lacking beyond. I therefore have some questions:

1. The beret. It hardly appears at all in 1940 (not counting Tam O'Shanters), then appears as part of particularly new services (RTR, RAC, Commando, Parachute). But in 1945, British troops tend to wear berets on most pictures that I've seen, regardless of unit. As the pictures are black and white, I have no idea what colour these berets are in. Can anyone elucidate on the development of beret wearing in the British/CW armies 44-45?

2. The cut away verison of the service dress, I think it was called doublet, was it still in use in 44-45?

3. Did Canadian troops wear a more greenish shade of khaki than the British? Or do they simply look that way because of higher quality?

4. The new pattern British helmet, the less flat one - when was it issued and how common was it 44-45?

5. The UK one-piece tanker overall, the yellowish one with a hood, apparently (not sure) made of canvas - when did this appear? Did all units receive these?

6. The wool cap, popularly seen on the heads of commandos, particularly around 1941 - was this a standard issue headwear for all troops?

7. British troops appear in some pictures wearing armbands. They appear to be attached in some improvised manner, and tend to hang loose. They also seem to be two-colured, but of course I can't see which colours. No letters as far as I can see. What did these signify?

8. Was the Denison smock worn by any other units than parachutists? Was the specially cut helmet worn by paratroops worn by any other troops?

9. Did New Zeelanders wear "lemon squeezers", and South Africans "polo pattern" helmets in Italy?

Regards

Dandelion

[Michael Dorosh]

1. The beret. It hardly appears at all in 1940 (not counting Tam O'Shanters), then appears as part of particularly new services (RTR, RAC, Commando, Parachute). But in 1945, British troops tend to wear berets on most pictures that I've seen, regardless of unit. As the pictures are black and white, I have no idea what colour these berets are in. Can anyone elucidate on the development of beret wearing in the British/CW armies 44-45?

Black beret was worn by Armoured Corps troops from the start of the war.

The Field Service Cap was standard for most everyone else until 1943, when the khaki beret (Canadian) or General Service bonnet (British) was introduced and phased in from 43-45.

(FS CAP)

2. The cut away verison of the service dress, I think it was called doublet, was it still in use in 44-45?

No idea what you're talking about.

3. Did Canadian troops wear a more greenish shade of khaki than the British? Or do they simply look that way because of higher quality?

See my book DRESSED TO KILL. Short answers - yes, no.

4. The new pattern British helmet, the less flat one - when was it issued and how common was it 44-45?

The Mk III was issued starting with those Divisions designated as assault troops for OVERLORD and saw service in other divisions by VE Day. It was never as widely issued as the Mk II.

5. The UK one-piece tanker overall, the yellowish one with a hood, apparently (not sure) made of canvas - when did this appear? Did all units receive these?

Hood? You mean the pixie suit?

6. The wool cap, popularly seen on the heads of commandos, particularly around 1941 - was this a standard issue headwear for all troops?

The "Cap, Comforter" was standard for all troops.

7. British troops appear in some pictures wearing armbands. They appear to be attached in some improvised manner, and tend to hang loose. They also seem to be two-colured, but of course I can't see which colours. No letters as far as I can see. What did these signify?

Blue/yellow for surveyors, white/blue for signallers and despatch riders were the most common two-colour armbands. They were either sewn together and worn loosely, or some versions had button or snap fasteners to allow two or three different sizes.

8. Was the Denison smock worn by any other units than parachutists? Was the specially cut helmet worn by paratroops worn by any other troops?

The Denison was standard issue for scouts and snipers in infantry battalions. The para helmet was similar to the later pattern Despatch Riders helmet for motorcyclists. See the book TIN LIDS by Service Publications.

[ May 17, 2003, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Dandelion]

"No idea what you're talking about."

- The cutaway, or doublet, is a service dress coat with rounded front as seen above. It has, in one version or other, been in British service since at least 1600, probably longer. It is still in use, but apparently only at ceremonial occasions. By 1940, it was used in the field, with a drab service dress variant with just such a rounded cut as in the picture above displays. Though no kilt, nor tartan trousers, at least in the field, just ordinary field trousers.

The doublet service in the British and Commonwealth armies finds it's origin in the traditional Scottish (and to some extent Irish) dress, which also includes a doublet, alas in a more original form, as evident here:

...which in turn originates from 16th century jackets, as evident here:

...which in turn was heavily influenced by the appearance of the medieval brigand, the normal military jacket of the time, as evident here:

"Divisions designated as assault troops"

- Were the assault troops those divisions making assault landings exclusively? Was it issued divisionally or to smaller units?

"You mean the pixie suit?"

- I don't know. In pictures from 45 one can often see tankers (black berets) wearing one piece overalls. I have one on an American colour photograph (very few British colour photo's around) and it is yellowish-tanish. The overall has a large hood, and large pockets, two per leg. On the left breast, it looks like pen-holders sewn on. Material looks like water proof canvas, and it has what appears to be drab lining. At least I think so, one of the men has rolled up his sleeves some and it looks like drab lining.

"scouts and snipers in infantry battalions."

- Would the scouts be the troops in the designated carrier platoon exclusively?

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Dandelion:

- The cutaway, or doublet, is a service dress coat with rounded front as seen above.

Cutaway is a slang term. Doublet is the wrong term altogether, you have it pictured correctly below. The Service Dress Jacket was worn, tailored, for wear with the kilt (or trews) but it was still a Service Dress Jacket. Cutaway was a colloquial term.

- Were the assault troops those divisions making assault landings exclusively? Was it issued divisionally or to smaller units?

Third Canadian, 50th British and 3rd British were the assault divisions. I can only speak for the Canadian example and say those battalions in the leading wave did have Mk III helmets. Members of the divisional MG battalion, as well as the reserve brigade, can be seen wearing the Mk III later in Normandy, but not exclusively.

Second Division battalions seem to have gotten the Mk III haphazardly as well - despite not landing in Normandy until July, one month after the landings. ie the Calgary Highlanders never seem to have gotten any, the Black Watch seem to have had one or two companies get them, the South Saskatchewans seem to have had some issued, etc.

Bear in mind the Mk IIIs were all British manufacture, and the Canadians actually returned them to Britain in 1945 as they were property of the UK.

"You mean the pixie suit?"

- I don't know. In pictures from 45 one can often see tankers (black berets) wearing one piece overalls. I have one on an American colour photograph (very few British colour photo's around) and it is yellowish-tanish. The overall has a large hood, and large pockets, two per leg. On the left breast, it looks like pen-holders sewn on. Material looks like water proof canvas, and it has what appears to be drab lining. At least I think so, one of the men has rolled up his sleeves some and it looks like drab lining.

That's the pixie suit. It was a tank crew uniform for cold weather. I've seen men in infantry units using them - usually vehicle commanders or officers.

"scouts and snipers in infantry battalions."

- Would the scouts be the troops in the designated carrier platoon exclusively?

No, they would be from the battalion Scout and Sniper Platoon. They operated on foot.

[ May 17, 2003, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Dandelion]

"Cutaway is a slang term. Doublet is the wrong term altogether, you have it pictured correctly below. The Service Dress Jacket was worn, tailored, for wear with the kilt (or trews) but it was still a Service Dress Jacket. Cutaway was a colloquial term."

Frightfully sorry about using slang and colloquial terms in a written inquiry. I was lured to such deplorable habits by a sentence of Mr Andrew Mollo's, the British military historian, in his explanation of a photograph from 1940, where he writes

"As a member of a Highland regiment, this lance-corporal of the Black Watch wears the cut-away version of the service dress tunic which was called a doublet. [---]"

The picture he is explaining displays a trooper wearing a jacket very much like the one I posted above, only coloured in khaki/drab and of heavier material (and no fance white or brass), with a stand-fall collar. The highlander in question is part of the 4th Infantry Division, BEF.

I am still curious if this type of jacket, whatever it's called, remained in field use 44-45.

[Michael Dorosh]

The Service Dress Jacket was not used for field use after 1940, once enough Battle Dress Blouses and Trousers had been procured and issued. See Brian L. Davis and BRITISH ARMY UNIFORMS.

This is the Highland Pattern Service Dress Jacket you are speaking of. It didn't change much between circa 1907 and the 1940s, in fact it may have been used as late as the 1960s and beyond. The reinforced shoulders and pleats on the pockets were briefly done away with in about 1916 and called "Kitchener Pattern" to preserve wool, but they were reinstituted during the war and remained the standard pattern even into WW II. SD was issued primarily only to bandsmen or for ceremonial purposes in the home country and was never worn in the field or in action after Battle Dress was available in quantity in late 1940.

Not sure why Mollo would call a Jacket a Doublet; the 1943 War Dress Regulations for the Canadian Army, for example describe a "Jacket, Service Dress, Universal Pattern" in which "In the Highland and Scottish Regiments the front of the skirts will be rounded off to Highland pattern...."

The 1932 Dress Regulations for the Canadian Militia refer to a "Jacket, Service Dress" in which "In Highland and Scottish Regiments the front of the skirts will be rounded off to Highland pattern..."

Of course, I've also seen respected historians refer to "Mark IV" Lee Enfields and talk about the 88mm gun of the Panther tank.

Doublet is the wrong term; it refers to a wool jacket as you picture, generally with turn back or gauntlet cuffs (usually revealing the "facing colour"), a stand up collar, tails, and lots of buttons. The doublet is worn for full dress/ceremonial duties. Most regimental pipe bands still employ doublets throughout the Commonwealth, even if their regiments can't afford to issue them to their rank and file. In my regiment, the pipe band wears the traditional red and green full doublets, while the colour party wears the green style without tails, as issued to the British Army for the last few decades. The green doublet replaced the traditional scarlet as an economy measure. When our pipe band travelled to Scotland in 1990, the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders - our sister regiment - were a bit surprised that our drummers were still in scarlet doublets, theirs had to wear green.

[ May 18, 2003, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Michael Dorosh]

The connection between military dress and civilian dress should also come as no surprise; military uniforms have always been influenced by civilian fashion and continue to to this day.

Is the medieval jacket you illustrate a doublet - or a singlet?

[Dandelion]

British and Commonwealth uniform do have a strong thread of tradition in them, which is really nice. One can trace all kinds of fashions of history in their uniform details. Come to think of it, I can't see any other nation so conservative, nor fond of picking up traits from certain eras. Except perhaps the Americans, but with such a young nation the possibilities of including historical traits lessens. Looking at the Blues and Royals parading, one can see details from practically all the periods that the British cherish as golden eras of one valour or other. Though I don't understand why this particular unit wears black uniforms, I must admit.

Meaning no offence at all, I actually think (deep) green is a more attractive colour than scarlet. Though the British have forever stolen the scarlet as their own particular colour, the Government tartan is predominantly green and so it must look rather smart with green doublets, no? Of course, I can still see the problem. I guess nobody would give the Mounties green jackets.

The Black Watch ceremonial dress is really a sight. We have very few such sights left in the world, and the fantastic appearance brings them to level with the Indian Gvt Bengal Lancer guards, or Jordan Arab Legion camel corps. I watched them (well I think it was them, might have been other highlanders with black jackets and Gvt tartan) relieve the Gurkhas last time I was in London, and the whole scene was rather unreal. For so many reasons.

Cheerio

Dandelion