Sergei Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 I'm working on a scenario. Would anyone have any idea of what this unit would have consisted of in June 1944 when fighting in Karelia? I know that on 27th of June it was reported to be down to 18 tanks, but I need to know what those would likely have been. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 2, 2003 Author Share Posted November 2, 2003 Okay, let me present the question in another way. Did the standard Soviet Tank Brigades have 44 T-34's and 22 T-70's? :confused: I have seen such composition in TOAW scenarios but some more profound knowledge would be appreciated. What was the ratio between T-34/76's and /85's in summer of 1944 anyway? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 1) By 1944, no. The T70 had been phased out by then (and none had been produced for almost 18 months, IIRC), although it would probably still be found in backwater areas (Karelia?), and my suspicion is quite regularly in Cavalry Corps. I have two different sources mentioning light tanks and one showing pictures of a T70 in 1944, one on the Dnjestr, the other in East Prussia. 2) Say 50-50, again with more T34-76 in backwater areas, or less important units. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 2, 2003 Author Share Posted November 2, 2003 Thanks Andreas! Was the T-70 replaced with something else in the OOB or did they just pretend that nothing was missing and go ahead understrength? But I guess I now have an idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 2, 2003 Author Share Posted November 2, 2003 Oh, and regarding Karelia as a backwater area for Russians... as I have seen a picture of Churchill's in Viipuri and read an account of a M3 Lee having been destroyed with a Panzerfaust in 1944, I have some serious trouble believing your suggestion. Why would they have used such fine examples of Western hitech know-how if it wasn't for the fact that the outcome of WW2 and the whole 20th century was decided in Karelia? Indeed, just the fact that Soviets were more interested in defeating Finland than Germany should prove that everything else was peripheral for Stavka. This is also reflected in tank design. KV heavy tanks were invented for the purpose of defeating Finns, and their followers the IS series also surprisingly was more anti-infantry than anti-tank oriented tanks. If they were designed to defeat the German Königtigers and Panthers, surely they would have used a better AT gun? But the 122mm gun sufficed against Finnish T-26's and BT-42's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 2, 2003 Author Share Posted November 2, 2003 Ah, now I found this. http://www.battlefield.ru/library/bookshelf/stats/stat11.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Originally posted by Sergei: Oh, and regarding Karelia as a backwater area for Russians... as I have seen a picture of Churchill's in Viipuri and read an account of a M3 Lee having been destroyed with a Panzerfaust in 1944, I have some serious trouble believing your suggestion. Why would they have used such fine examples of Western hitech know-how if it wasn't for the fact that the outcome of WW2 and the whole 20th century was decided in Karelia? Indeed, just the fact that Soviets were more interested in defeating Finland than Germany should prove that everything else was peripheral for Stavka. This is also reflected in tank design. KV heavy tanks were invented for the purpose of defeating Finns, and their followers the IS series also surprisingly was more anti-infantry than anti-tank oriented tanks. If they were designed to defeat the German Königtigers and Panthers, surely they would have used a better AT gun? But the 122mm gun sufficed against Finnish T-26's and BT-42's. Woops - you are completely right of course. I go and phone Col. Glantz to tell him to can all his other projects to deal with Karelia NOW! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Originally posted by Sergei: Thanks Andreas! Was the T-70 replaced with something else in the OOB or did they just pretend that nothing was missing and go ahead understrength? But I guess I now have an idea. They replaced them with T34s, at least on paper. You know it makes sense. The Nov. 1943 Shtat gives the Tank Brigade 3x21 medium tanks = 63 total. The July 1942 Shtat gave it 31 T34 and 21 T60/70 = 52 total. The Dec. 1941 Shtat gives it 16 T60, 20 T34 and 10 KV1 in two battalions, 46 tanks total. You can see how the hitting power increased at the same time as logistics were more and more simplified. Not sure what the TOAW numbers are based on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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