Battlefront and SC forum members to travel to russia?

[Kuniworth]

Hey guys. I have a suggestion, anyone interested in going to Russia next year during the celebration of the victory over nazigermany on 9th of may 1945???

It would be very funny to meet you all in person and talk with real soviet vets before they all soon will be dead.

What do you say, a weekend in Russia next may. We have some fun and discuss ww2 at the same time.

[JerseyJohn]

If an unforseen windfall wanders in I'd be glad to join you, but the past few years a big trip for us has been driving to New York to see relatives.

When you get there I hope you enjoy it a lot.

[DalmatiaPartisan]

or U can just visit me and read my grandpa s war diaries

[Curry]

Interesting idea and does sound fun. Except for the cost for those of us on this side of the Atlantic.

I will have to settle to just sit and talk with my dad. He is starting to get Alzheimer’s and cant remember short term things but remembers the war years still clearly. He has a purple heart and a Broze star. He landed a week after D-Day, was wounded in battle of Metz fighting the SS, Was in the hospital and was taken out of rehab and sent back to the front for the battle of the bulge. He describes how anyone that could walk in the hospital and carry a rifle was sent back to the front. His feet were severaly frozen in the battle of the bulge but the US army would not let him out and transfered over to the new 9th air force to refuel planes and as he says watch run ways until the end of the war.

Kuni is right, that whole generation that fought the war to save civilation as we know it today is slowly dying off and its great to get their first hand perspective before they are gone.

[jon_j_rambo]

Watch "Band of Brothers", it's a must see.

My Uncle fought in WW-2, he was in the U.S. Navy. Their destroyer was sunk in the Atlantic & very few survived. My Uncle fortunate to survive & refuses to talk about it anymore.

[kurt88]

Or read some books!

There are some excellent books written by German frontline soldiers who served in Russia.

-In deadly combat

-The forgotten soldier

(although ther are some rumours that this one

was made up)

-Black Edelweiss

-With our backs to Berlin

to name a few

[ September 28, 2003, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: kurt88 ]

[Comrade Trapp]

My Uncle fought in WW-2, he was in the U.S. Navy. Their destroyer was sunk in the Atlantic & very few survived. My Uncle fortunate to survive & refuses to talk about it anymore.

Thats often the case with most combat veterans, and when they do talk about it, its often pretty gory.

I had a grandfather that fought as an Army infantryman in WWII Europe and a uncle who served 2 1/2 tours as an infantryman in Vietnam. Neither one of them talked about their experiences too much.

Comrade Trapp

[JerseyJohn]

Aside from rekindling memories they probably don't want, a lot of combat vets figure their talk will only be taken one of two ways: either that they're BS artists or they're trying to make themselves seem more important than they are.

Most decorated veterans say the same thing, that the real heros end up dead on the battlefield with no one knowing what they did.

General Rambo, I knew someone in the fifties who also served on a destroyer that was sunk. It was torpedoed in the Pacific. He was below decks and only remembers being knocked out. When he opened his eyes he was bobbing in the water wearing a lifejacket. He wasn't wearing one below decks! He never found out who saved him.

You get a weird feeling as these generations pass. When I was small we knew a Spanish American War Veteran, and I later played taps at a funeral for one of them attented by eight or nine of his friends and his widow, all way up in years, probably mid-eighties. Everything was going fine till toward the end, when hitting the hight note I heard one of them say, "What's becoming of the old gang?" and I nearly cracked it. But I held up till it was over and immediately had to yank a handkerchief and cover my face with it while I laughed like hell. It looked as though I were crying and the presiding officer, a light colonel -- these were ancient officers! -- came over and said, "It's okay to cry, son, seeing the old guys always pass always effects me the worst, too."

Getting back to the fifties and sixties, though, I wish now that I had a tape recorder when I was small, there were still plenty of WW I Vets and the WW II Vets were still fairly young. They used to talk a lot about the war, but not about the fighting itself. Mostly it was stories about being on transports or lousy food or anything else that took place between battles.

One uncle, an infantry sergeant who fought from Torch through to Central Europe, always had a sad expression and never even mentioned he was in the war, but everyone knew he was. I didn't find out his story till after he died. My aunt told me about it, she said it took years for him to tell her the whole thing. After fighting about three years, and with the war about to end, he was in an action in Central Europe. His squad was being shot at from a small house off a road. They kept calling in German for the shooters to surrender but the only response was more rifle fire. At one point, looking through binoculars, they made out part of uniform and it was Waffen SS, so they figured these were die hard fanatics who they'd have to kill.

And they did. My uncle worked his way close enough to toss a couple of grenades inside. He thought everyone was dead but the door creaked open and a young kid emerged in a baggy uniform, covered with blood. He died in his arms, staring up at his face. When he went inside he saw they were all kids, around twelve of them, a few still dying, all dressed in baggy Waffen SS uniforms. He told my aunt they didn't know what they were doing so must have just been given arms and uniforms and they set off. He said he didn't understand why they were packed together, but that's simple, scared kids don't want to be by themselves. So that was Hitler's last ditch People's Army. My uncle snapped, became almost unresponsive, and was sent home early with Battle Fatigue. My aunt said he didn't say much untill about 1950, and I knew he never talked about the army at all.

I'm sure many Korean War and Vietnam Vets had similar experiences.

It's strange that the human race hates wars, yet has to have averaged two or three a year since the beginning of recorded history.

[Shaka of Carthage]

The reason combat veterans, especially infantry combat veterans, don't talk about it, is that its hard for those who have never been in combat to understand.

The hardship part, people understand, because you can relate to it. So thats relatively easy to talk about. The killing part, especially the emotional rollercoaster it puts you thru, is something you can never relate to unless you have experienced it. In some ways, its like a drug addict trying to explain his addicition to someone who isn't addicted. You can never understand, no matter how hard you try.

Understand, that for some of us, the effects of combat are scarier than combat itself. We don't see the world the same way as everyone else does afterwards. In some ways, we have lost our "civilized" behavior, and some of us can't handle it.

And especially in the United States, our culture looks down on soldiers, especially those who become professionals. Its very evident in our training, since how many of us wouldn't be disgusted at the thought of having a dog assigned to us during basic training, having to care and feed it, but weeks before graduation, having to kill and eat the same dog?

Anyway, my point was, that its alot easier for combat veterans to keep thier mouths shut, because the last thing we want, is to lose the respect of those we were lucky enough to come back home to.

[Comrade Trapp]

So Jersey, did you ever know anyone who fought in the Revolutionary War?

Comrade Trapp

[JerseyJohn]

I probably did Comrade , but they'd have been too old to remember it!

Come to think of it, the last person believed to have been in the Civil War, possibly a drummer boy, died in 1959. I was ten, so there might still have been some Civil War Vets even then, but I was a young whippersnapper, not unlike yourself, and mainly wanted to poke fun at the ancient ones.

Shaka That puts it into perspective and sums it up beautifully. I wasn't a combat vet but still felt a lot of awkwardness in becoming a civilian again. It had to be worse for the guys who saw action. I think combat vets are respected by other vets regardless of branch or assignment but, as you so well put it, there is a rift that goes up with people who have never been in. It's weird; the society deliberately puts some of it's members into that position, trains them to fight, sends them out, then has trouble accepting them back if they survive.

[ September 28, 2003, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[Konstantin V. Kotelnikov]

While it would be a blast, the May 9th holiday is always a big blowout, you may be disappointed talking to Russian Vets.

I have "interviewed" several of them here in the states. They are quite reserved and usually don't open up.

They'll tell you all about Spam and other minor details about their service. But the information that everyone most wants to hear, the battle stories and such are usually locked away and not talked about.

60 years has not diminished the pain. Some will open up, but most will not. I have also noticed this when speaking to other countries veterans. Recently I talked to an American that served in the pacific, he loved to talk about his unit, but was reluctant to discuss fighting.

However, as the repression of the soviet union ages, more and more are opening up. I look to see more books written and published by the soldiers.

Recently a reenactor in CA who is fluent in Russian helped translate a diary. I believe it is being published under the title "Tank Rider into the Reich" or something like that.

Another gentleman who lived in this area and taught at the university of Iowa published his book; "Man is Wolf to Man". He started as a T-34 driver and then made a comment which landed him in a Gulag. Excellent book.

There are others out there, but not the wealth of them that we can find for the Germans, Americans, British or whatnot.

[jon_j_rambo]

Why would anybody want to relive fighting? My Uncle was on a Destroyer that sunk in the Atlantic, 7 men survived, my Uncle was one of them thank goodness. He was 19 years old. He only told the story a few times (a LONG time ago, before I was born & only to a few select family members). My Dad told me never to ask about it.

All the Germans did was kill a bunch of people for nothing. Just imagine the direction the world could of took if those Nazi Pigs would have produce good things, rather than murder people. That's all the Germans were, murderers. Who did they really beat...a bunch of sleeping farmers. They were stopped by Righteousness at The Channel & at the Volga.

If you're interested in a GREAT historical warstory, watch BAND OF BROTHERS.

Rambo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OUT

[jon_j_rambo]

I also had an Uncle in Korea, he laughed like a madman saying it was a frozen *%ing Hell, you don't want to know & I'm not going to tell you. He died two years ago of cancer.

I had 2 Uncles in Vietnam (on my Mom's side). One was a chopper pilot & asking him about the war would get a response,"I don't need to smell the trash to know it stinks, I don't talk about it." Asking the other Uncle would be a VERY stupid thing, he's living a rough life.

The ONLY person EVER to tell me details about combat was a golfing buddy. He fought in Bush's little Panama adventure, was an MP. He saw a friend get blasted after they pulled over a car during restrictions. He promptly put a gernade into the vechicle...he told another story, it's ugly. It was a very emotional moment, nothing glorious about it.

Another golfing buddy, was in Desert Storm '91 in a tank. He didn't talk about combat, because the airforce did the job. He said it was hot as Hell, that's it.

America should take an isolationist position with the World (George Washington). Our tax money goes to overseas, our young soldiers die overseas, our manufacturing jobs are gone overseas...for what?

[Friendly Fire]

This thread strikes home with me. Not the original question, about going to Russia, but the responses describing vets unwilling to talk about the War.

My Dad was in WW II, a young Canadian at Juno Beach. He operated a radio, and he was wounded on D-Day.

Thats it, that is all I know, and I know if from my mom. Dad won't talk about about it at all, and I think my interest in the War (and in wargames in particular) might bother him. So I keep away from the whole subject. (I did not ask him if he wanted to see Saving Private Ryan)

So it is a weird feeling. Naturally I'm proud of him, but I don't know much about what his role in all of it was. I don't know if he thinks about the war very much - maybe he thinks about it every day. Or maybe he has managed to forget it and I would just be dragging up terrible memories.

The war gave my Dad a ticket to go to university and study engineering, something he would have never thought possible growing up on the praries in the Great Depression. But at what price?

FF

[JerseyJohn]

While we're on the fringe subject of watching war stories, such as Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers, both of which I enjoyed, I have to add one of my own.

The 1945 movie, A Walk in The Sun, starring Dana Andres, John Ireland, Llyod Bridges and Richard Conte. An excellent movie that shows confusion in a small unit and the it functions almost as an independant organism with events moving independantly all around it.

My favorite part occurs in the middle of the movie, when the top sergeant, a hardnosed no nonsense battle veteran, after complaining about headaches suddenly snaps and starts whimpering and digging a hole with his bayonet. It all caught up with him and he wanted to dig a hole so deep that nothing could ever touch him.

A truly great and honest film; a must see for anyone who likes war movies, particularly ones that strive for realism.

A typical review:

A Walk In The Sun (1945)

Terrific WWII drama from director Lewis Milestone follows one infantry platoon in battle from the time they land on an Italian beach to their bloody drive to claim an enemy-held farmhouse six miles inland. Top-notch cast includes Dana Andrews, Richard Conte, John Ireland, Lloyd Bridges, Norman Lloyd and Huntz Hall. 112 min.

Category: Historical & War Director: Lewis Milestone

Cast: Dana Andrews, Lloyd Bridges, Steve Brodie, James Cardwell, Richard Conte, Huntz Hall, Sterling Holloway, John Ireland, John Kellogg, Norman Lloyd, Robert Lowell, George Offerman Jr., Herbert Rudley, George Turner, Matt Willis

Also Available In: DVD

[ September 29, 2003, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]