82ndReady Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 It seems the best Axis startegy in Russia is to still have 7 -10 air Units with Jet Tech +2 or higher plus 6 - 9 Armys, 4-5 corps 3 HQs and 4 -5 tanks. With that and some italians theres really nothing Russia can do but take the beating! My Allied strategy has been beaten everytime now in Russia, Strategy #1 Throw corps at the Axis wave and build lines behind rivers with Armys backed with HQ's. Preserve the tanks and move them to the 2 cities along the river lines(let them entrench)and along with them hold the 2 air units placed in the middle of the front to combat the Germans air but placed just far enough out of the way from the German air otherwise there gone(they will only last 2 turns anyway in the meantime you need your Mpps to build and reinforce ground units)! With this tactic UK have taken Iraq and are building Air units and operating them to the Russian front while the US is gearing up and preparing to hit France with everything and thats 6 - 8 turns away! Strategy #2 Confront the Germans up front (only do this if Russia declared war! Most of the time the Axis are not ready and have a weak front!) Buy HQs and some corps disband the ships and buy air bring all the offensive forces to the south and pound and defend away! (This tactic is win lose situation, it all depends on the position of the Axis! If the Axis are gaining less than 425 Mpp a turn good idea to use this tactic!) As for the rest of the Allies same as in Strategy 1 except no units enter russia they all Invade France. with all this said what else can be done to turn the tide in Russia?? It seems to me that Russia should be able to buy infantry at a much lesser cost than all other countires, any comments on this are welcomed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konstantin V. Kotelnikov Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Originally posted by 82ndReady: It seems to me that Russia should be able to buy infantry at a much lesser cost than all other countires, any comments on this are welcomed!I couldn't agree with you more on the above point. Each country should have it's unit(s) that it could build cheaper than any other country. Like the USSR with Infantry, Germany with U-Boats, USA with Air Force, Britian with BB's, and France with Wine and Cheese distrubutors. The key to the USSR surviving is numbers. And at 480 MPP and dropping due to german invasion it has a hard time throwing out the Human Wave to stall the germans. Remember History... For every army the germans destroyed another would appear. Well at 250 MPP for a Russian Army, that's a bit difficult. Namely because of no lend lease and the inability to evacuate the factories to the Urals. Too much gets over run to quick. What would really be nice and this would be a across the board thing. Is if you can build a corps and then later down the line spend the additional MPP and upgrade it to an army. That would be sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82ndReady Posted January 6, 2003 Author Share Posted January 6, 2003 Konstatin V. Kotelnikov Very good points! Maybe the real answer is in increasing Russian Anti-Tank Tech say maybe up to "4" to start also Anti-Air to 3 and keep the current investment chits as is for Russia. This is a small tweak and maybe I can make A change to the current 1939 Campaign and see how this works? I still believe we need balance or at least a fighting chance as the Allies! comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friedrich_der_2 Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 In the christmas tournament most of the games were won by Allies. In all of my games I found it easier to win as Allies. Why alsways this "wining" about the advantage of Axis? Every side needs a complete different strategy. I think the game is well balanced. You can win on both sides. Sven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82ndReady Posted January 7, 2003 Author Share Posted January 7, 2003 ok Sven1969 you won as the Allies, now how about responding to the post instead of boasting about your victories! The post is not about crying over AXIS advantage but more about reading my strategies and commenting in your opinion how you would change them or what your stratgey is (if you would like to share??) . This was not about changing or adding another patch because I felt the AXIS have a greater advantage still or that I dont have a grasp on the concepts on how to play SC. Please read the post before commenting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konstantin V. Kotelnikov Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Originally posted by 82ndReady: Konstatin V. Kotelnikov Very good points! Maybe the real answer is in increasing Russian Anti-Tank Tech say maybe up to "4" to start also Anti-Air to 3 and keep the current investment chits as is for Russia. Let me know how it goes. I too thought of teaking the USSR to bring them more historically online. They had a excellent AT weapon at the start of the german invasion. The 76mm AT gun. It was just getting distributed. It was such a good gun the germans took it into service immediately. Either as a AT gun or a Marder II. The soviets also had the 85mm Anti Aircraft gun which was very comparable to the famous 88. I often thought of setting their starting tech as in infantry as 2. Placing them on the map as strength 10 and then allowing the Allied player to spend points to upgrade them. This would represent that they had the tech, but had not gotten it to the field yet. Same along the lines of Tanks and Planes. The soviets had some excellent designs just arriving. We all know about the T34 and KV1. Someday when I get the time I will tweek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollyguy Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Jumping all the way to level 4 Russian anti-tank is WAY too much. Try level 1. These things are better done one step at a time, not by bounding leaps. In Bill Macon's mod, I would vote for level 1 anti-tank for the Russians, a bit more cash, and maybe one more chit. Then see what happens. I am looking forward to playing Bill Macon's mod, because I see a lot of possibilities opening up for the Allies with the infusion of extra troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GumbyDude Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Maybe the better tweak is IT level 4 or 5 to start with? Makes everything cheaper, but I doubt Russia would build anything but infantry at first, then tanks after they stabilize the front. That would feel about right. I would vote against the russian jets though. Their planes were outdated at the time of the attack. They had the largest air force in the world (at that time) and it was completely destroyed in a matter of three days (albeit many on the ground). The Russian Air Force commander commited suicide by like the fourth day or something, if I recall correctly. I understand they recovered by the end of the war though in production and quality. In fact, there is no denying the factory production inside Russia. When told how many tanks the factories in the Urals were producing each month near the end of the war, Hitler flew into a frenzy saying it was a lie and was impossible and carried on in his usual tantrum. It was a huge figure, but I can't remember (about a thousand per month I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82ndReady Posted January 7, 2003 Author Share Posted January 7, 2003 Jollyguy - You are correct that the Anti-Tank comment i made and I wish to correct it from Anti-Tank level "4" to what I meant to say was that it should be Industry Tech level "4" (keep in mind this is only 20% off units original cost so its not really that significant overall. Besides the Russians towards the end of the War had an ungodly amount of Infantry units!) Although doing this will skew purchases in other areas for Russia and that would surely bring unbalance to the game...hmmm what else can be done? Maybe Siberian units entering in can be increased with more experience (also keep in mind that these were experienced Guard units that were well equiped to fight in any condition and were well known to be hardned combantants!) In the game with most cases once these units arrive they just plug holes in the line instead of bringing about relief and turning the tide like they really did! Looking at my current Russian MPP's shrink to nothing knowing all along Russia in the war transferd most Factories to the far east, where is this shown in the game??? History is History but lets at least allow for this since it did happen! Just some comments and thoughts on how to yet improve on a great game! Jollyguy - one more thing to add, I just looked over Bill Macons 1939 Mod and I think thats the answer to my question. thanks! BTW Jollyguy wanna give that Mod a try?? [ January 06, 2003, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: 82ndReady ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayJay_H Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Each country should have it's unit(s) that it could build cheaper than any other country. Like the USSR with Infantry, Germany with U-Boats, USA with Air Force, Britian with BB's, and France with Wine and Cheese distrubutors. Yep, would be great to see that featured in SC2. More variety with the mpp costs for units from one major country to another. As mentioned above, also soviet mass production of tanks is not feasable within current game mechanics - its missing. maybe tech advance should be splitted up into different sectors (ground, sea, air [ January 06, 2003, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: JayJay_H ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollyguy Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Heith, yea, would like to give the mod a try. I'll email you this evening, at work now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 They had a excellent AT weapon at the start of the german invasion. The 76mm AT gun. Good point. This would justify giving the Russians at least L1 AT at start and would make a difference. Russians should maybe start with L1 jets also. They certainly don't deserve better planes to compete with Germany and Britain in 1939, but by 1941 they were getting better. Germans should have L2 or L3 jets by Barbarossa anyway, so this would close the gap and make a difference. A problem with giving anyone L4 or L5 anything during the early years is that there is no room to grow. So I prefer to leave that available for IT and everything else. I'd like to provide low strength cadre units to US and USSR if possible, but At-Start MPPs is the only thing we can tweak at this point. Maybe provide 2 turns worth? That would be 960 for USSR and 360 for US. It's easy to get carried away here. Don't want to make the game impossible for Axis, do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Double post. :confused: [ January 06, 2003, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Bill Macon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriantheWise Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Two Points: 1) I never thought about disbanding the Russian navy. Sounds like a pretty good idea, actually. 2) Have you ever considered trying to take Finland in the first few turns. You have the ships to pound, you move the air units up there for practice, add one corp and your first HQ, and you should have Finland finished in 4 turns, unless the Axis brings an HQ and an army up there. It's tight, but helps with the front and the air units get experience. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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