What would do you consider the most important research?

[Batavian]

Curious to hear the opinions of what you consider the most important areas to research.

My instinct would be to go for "Anti-Tank" first as it has the effect of increasing the maximum strength of your armies and corps. One might consider, concurrent with "Anti-Tank", is "Industrial Technology" to offset the higher cost of these larger strength units. I would probably then go for "Heavy Tank". Here's my ranking for the rest...

1) Anti-Tank

2) Industrial Technology

3) Heavy Tank

Followed more distantly by...

4) Jet Aircraft

5) Anti-Aircraft Radar

6) Long Range Aircraft

7) Rocket

Lastly...

8) Gun Laying Radar

9) Sonar

10) Advanced Sub

11) Heavy Bomber

In short, emphasis on stregthening ground first, air second, naval third.

What are others opinions?

[Bullwinkle]

I do it a different way. I start ASAP putting up to 2 units in Indus. Tech, then I upgrade Jets to a 1, then I.T. to a 3, etc.

My goal is to have I.T. at 3, Jets at 2 and Long Range at 1. The reason is because aircraft are so devastating and necessary to ground assault.

After I.T. gets to 5 I redistribute the points to focus upon Anti-aircraft (only if playing the Russian AI at +2), anti-tank & heavy tank. Sonar gets points when jets hit 5 if the U.S. is involved.

Two items I never invest in is Long Range Aircraft and gun laying radar. I suggest that Hubert make these technologies worth investing in in the next update. Currently it just isn't worth it in my opinion.

[ev]

I find industrial tech to be key.

With IT at L5, an L0 Army costs 125 and an L0 Tank Group costs 175. Which means you can build only Tank Groups and use them to cover your front line. Then you use your mobility to exploit gabs in the enemy line, instead of trying to break through.

My second choice in tech is Jet Engines. Tanks and Long Range are sort of tied for 3rd place depending on my game strategy.

Usually I research Anti Tank with only one of my mayor powers. If playing the allies, I may research anti tank for the US but not for the Brits or vice versa. Then use the larger infantry units to take cities or to fight in countries with a lot of mountains (like Greece).

I avoid using infantry to hold positions out in the open. I will anchor my infantry lines in the marshes, woods, or cities, or behind rivers. Out in the open plains I will use tanks whenever possible.

I want my Ind Tech to be a couple of points higher than Tank Tech so Tanks are cheap enough...

[Batavian]

You know what would be interesting is to do a poll on what people think is most important research tech. Does anyone know if there is a Strategic Command site with a poll out there? Or can we set up one here on this forum?

[Compassion]

Originally posted by Bullwinkle:

Two items I never invest in is Long Range Aircraft and gun laying radar. I suggest that Hubert make these technologies worth investing in in the next update. Currently it just isn't worth it in my opinion.

As someone who only plays humans my priorities might be a bit different than yours, but I think that Long Range Air is a big mid game goal. After Jets are up to 3 and IT is pumped up and Tanks are on their way, I put points into LRA becasue I need to be able to use my planes as often as possible and the need to rebase every few turns as the Germans during the opening stages of a Russian campign can drain my offensive power as well as keeping the brits from risking the Royal Navy in any escapades up the Baltic or too close to the mainland in the North Sea.

As the Allies, the ability to reach out and touch deep into Germany from Britain is nice, especially once you have a couple points and can base out of the north away (hopefully if you are leading the LRA race) from prying eyes. Also works well as an intel gathering tool for the Brits for the odd game that you can keep the Ruskies in for a while.

[John DiFool]

Thoughts about the "weak sisters"...

Long-range air can be of some use-for example you

can spot enemy HQs and then bomb the heck out of

them (they'd be invisible without the extra

spotting range). Someone recently posted a

strategy where, by using long-range air, they

basically made Britain unusable, and hence no D-

Day later.

AA tech would be more useful if it applied to ANY

air-to-ground attack, not just industry.

If you, as Allies, don't invest in sonar, don't

whine when high-tech Axis subs start sinking all

your ships and convoys... LR air also helps here.

I can't remember gun-laying as ever being decisive

in any game I played-usually by the time I

researched it, either Russia and/or England are

toast. The Italians might benefit from a lucky

point or two early-to-mid game...

Bomber tech-can have a large effect, killing huge

swaths of enemy installations in a very short

period of time, but you usually can't afford to

devote many points to it.

Rocket tech is worthless to the US, almost so to

the Brits (since they can't be transported

across water). Even as G/R, I'd rather use my

research on planes, which are more flexible.

So, some of these techs can be of some use in

certain situations and in combination with

certain strategies.

John DiFool

[Yohan]

I only play humans and here is the order I use:

Germany

IT

Jets

Tanks

Subs

Long Range

Italy

IT

anti-tank

Jets

GB

IT

Jets

Long Range

Sonar

USA

IT

Jets

Russia

IT

Anti-tank

[Bullwinkle]

Excuse me, but I made a mistake in my post above.

The techs I never research are heavy bombers, sonar, and gun laying.

I really think Hubert should do something about these items to make them worthwhile.

[waltero]

at what time is it best to dump resorse points into research?

[JimR]

Allowing anti-aircraft technology to help units defend against air attack would be a big incentive to invest in AA. Also it would help to blunt the "massed air fleets" strategy that, at the moment, so easily tears to pieces carefully constructed defensive lines.

[ev]

Originally posted by JimR:

Allowing anti-aircraft technology to help units defend against air attack would be a big incentive to invest in AA. Also it would help to blunt the "massed air fleets" strategy that, at the moment, so easily tears to pieces carefully constructed defensive lines.

I strongly agree AA should help units defend from air raids.

Having said that, I am concern about making defense lines impregnable. I would have AA improing units defense from air, but I would also make heavier tanks more lethal against infantry.

And, I think the above is realistic. Improved high velocity guns such as the German 88mm were used efectively against tanks and airplanes. But, likewise, improved tanks were the nemesis of the older antitank guns (33mm, 50mm, and even 75mm with older ammo) since their rounds would bounce off the heavier tanks.

[HankWWIIOnline]

I don't know, I had a line of L4 infantry defending against the Red Horde, and his L4 Jets could barely do any damage to them. In fact, half the time THEY would take damage rather than my own Army unit. I don't think we need AA bonuses for infantry, it seems to come with the added strength of infantry units.

[I/O Error]

Perhaps adding AA defense based on technology to infantry units, but then throwing in the ability to let units move AFTER they attack? My basic problem with combat in this game is that you really can't get anywhere if you don't have aircraft. It almost seems like the infantry and other units act more as tokens to deny the hexes to the enemy, while the aircraft do the lion's share of the fighting. Kind of annoying.

I'm just rambling.

[JerseyJohn]

For Axis my priorities are:

1) Jets : till they reach L3; then again after opponent is also @ L3 -- get a good edge on jet aircraft and other things fall more easily into place.

2) Industrial Production, otherwise you can't affort new units as their Level increases.

3) Air Defense Radar, big help to your airfleets.

4) Heavy Tanks -- essential.

5) Anti-tank Guns -- also essential.

6) Long Range Aircraft

7) Gunnery Radar.

8) Rocketry.

9) Advanced subs.

And that's about it.

For the Allies it's about the same except I'd put sonar in there instead of rocketry and would move gunnery radar up a notch.

Generally I think Jets and Industrial Production are by far the most important.

[JayJay_H]

Originally posted by JerseyJohn:

For Axis my priorities are:

1) Jets : till they reach L3; then again after opponent is also @ L3 -- get a good edge on jet aircraft and other things fall more easily into place.

2) Industrial Production, otherwise you can't affort new units as their Level increases.

3) Air Defense Radar, big help to your airfleets.

4) Heavy Tanks -- essential.

5) Anti-tank Guns -- also essential.

6) Long Range Aircraft

7) Gunnery Radar.

8) Rocketry.

9) Advanced subs.

And that's about it.

For the Allies it's about the same except I'd put sonar in there instead of rocketry and would move gunnery radar up a notch.

Generally I think Jets and Industrial Production are by far the most important.

Agreeing with Jersey; i think it varies from game to game, and depends on your preferences. You always gotta focus on one sector, i for example enjoy it to see my kingtigers are unstoppable so i am eager to get tanks +5, but jets are also important as well as Ind Tech, sometimes quantity aint the most important factor but quality amounts to your ultimate success

[JerseyJohn]

JayJay_H

Agreed, if your enemy has heavy tanks L-5 you sure as hell better research anti-tank guns!

Revising things a bit, when I said Allies I was thinking of Britain.

I think Germany and the USSR should concentrate on land oriented and air research while Britain and Italy would be more inclined to naval research. I would still put Industrial and Jet Planes very high on the list in both camps.

Rocketry is a comparative luxury in this game; not of much use till L3, not really effective till L5, though I love using them they're really a rich man's toy.

Glad JayJay caught that, it's a good clarification.

[ November 23, 2002, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[Flashblade]

In my experience there is only one essential tech: IT, all the others depend on what strategy you're going for and just as important: what your opponent does.

IT is the obvious choice, you can halve the cost of all your units AND HQs. A numerous, diversified and well supplied army is much better than a small badly supplied one, even the best L5 tank group will get taken down if caught out of supply...

Advancing to far in certain techs can also backfire on you by driving up the cost of your units. I had a great game going as the Allies, but I invested to heavily in Anti-Tank and my Russian corps got to damn expensive, in the end I couldn't afford to fill the gaps in the line anymore: Russia falls, game over.

I am now much more carefull in where I put my research money after IT. On the offensive (Axis) my goal is usually to equal or surpass my opponents in each area, but no more. IE: if I am facing L2 tanks, I try and get L2 or L3 tanks, but not L4 due to the extra cost.

On the defensive I concentrate the Brits and the Americans on obtaining air superiority while the Russians invest only in IT, once the cost of HQs comes down you can start mounting small counterattacks and your defence gets a huge boost.

A really great tech to invest in is LR aircraft, here's why:

1 - Better recon: even the best commanders can't stop an attack they never saw coming.

2 - Does not affect the cost of your fighters or bombers.

3 - Allows your planes to attack on multiple fronts without moving, great for the invasion of Russia!

4 - Allow you to hit those far away industrial targets, at worst forcing the ennemy to spend money garrisoning them or at best wrecking havoc on there economy.

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by Flashblade:

In my experience there is only one essential tech: IT, all the others depend on what strategy you're going for and just as important: what your opponent does.

No doubt about it.

I have long argued that Industrial Tech should be a separate category. Not only for the cost of placing a chit in research, but also -- there should NOT be a refund at all.

If the new patch does indeed implement the 50% penalty for moving chits around, then you are most asssuredly going to see some different strategies.

Who can afford to blithely throw away 500-1000 or more MPPs? :eek:

We will have to be FAR more selective when we choose what to research, and when... and this can only help the game balance. For instance, I can foresee some players spreading tech-chits around to such an extent that they might not have more than 2, or possibly 3 in any one area.

When you start totalling up the other military units that could have been purchased with those 1000+ MPPs, you are entering a whole new arena in terms of balance, most especially when it comes to playing a human opponent.

With the AI, you can indeed make small and fairly non-consequential mistakes. With a very good opponent you will pay for each and EVERY one of those seemingly insignificant "research calculation errors."

[JayJay_H]

Originally posted by Flashblade:

, even the best L5 tank group will get taken down if caught out of supply...

I saw elite german panzer units (from my army group north, very experienced) get sorrounded, cut off from supply for at least 2 turns, but nevertheless they were able to survive! With 2 or 3 points strength left they finally made it back to the german lines... The survivors were awarded the Iron Cross 1st Class without exception, for performing their respective duties

[ November 25, 2002, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: JayJay_H ]

[Flashblade]

It is definetly possible, but what got your tank unit out was as much the experience as the technology. Of course even with max ind. tech it would cost you close to 200mpp to bring those bad boys back up to full strength, and by then they would have lost ALL their XP...