Dandelion Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 Hi all, 1. Is the amount of VP gained for any casualty/equipment loss always equal to the "purchase" cost? 2. The manual says "[---][victory] points, which generally add up to 100" (p.102); how does the formula look, that transforms the earned VPs to a 1-100 scale? Is it merely a percentage of the total potential amount? 3. In the manual it says that exited troops are "generally worth 2-3 times the units purchase value" (also p.102). Is there a list, where one can see more specifically how much they are worth exited? Regards Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted May 3, 2003 Share Posted May 3, 2003 1. Not always, manned weapons, ie mortars, guns, AFVs count towards the VP when destroyed but on top of that the Crew itself counts additionally, not sure how much however. IIRC BTS tweaked Crew values higher so you don't want to lose them. 2. The '100' scale is made up of VFs, casualties (purchase costs) and units marked for Exit. IIRC someone did do a rough formula, though I don't know where to begin to search for that. AFAIK BTS never publicly released a 'formula'. 3. Again no list I am aware of, but something to keep in mind is units that are supposed to Exit and don't count 2-3 times for your opponent. In addition if they are destroyed those VPs are added also. Ron 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted May 4, 2003 Author Share Posted May 4, 2003 Thanks Ron, I am trying to design a scenario relying heavily on exited units, but just can't seem to get it to work properly. It is primarily the '100' scale that is evading my understanding. Please bare with me for some follow-ups. I'll have to use a primitive model to illustrate my problem, as I will not otherwise understand an answer Say X has a force worth a total of 100 pts. Say that Y has a force worth a total of 1000 pts. If, during the battle, a unit worth 1 pt in purchase cost is lost by both players, is it worth more or less to either of them in terms of VP? ...and, if both X and Y are conditioned to exit, say, a unit worth 1 pt in purchase, is this one point worth more or less to any of them in terms of VP? Regards Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 I believe it works like this: X= unit worth 1 point must exit Y= unit worth 1 point No VFs Assuming the VP calculation for exiting or not is 3x the unit cost. Case 1 X exits the unit so gets '3' VPs and 100% Victory Case 2 X doesn't exit unit Y gets '3' VPs and 100% victory Case 3 X destroys Y and exits so gets '4' VPs and 100% victory Case 4 X destroys Y but doesn't exit so gets '1' VP Y gets '3' VPs and 75% victory Case 5 Y destroys X so gets '4' VPs and 100% victory Case 6 Y and X both destroy each other X gets '1' VP Y gets '4' VPs and 80% victory Again I remember a few people went into more depth with this but AFAIK that is the 'formula' for exiting and victory points. Hope that helps. As an aside I forgot to mention that captured units add into the victory total also. Ron 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted May 4, 2003 Author Share Posted May 4, 2003 Ah, I see, I think I'm getting it. Thanks again. Now, back to the drawing board. Cheers Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted May 4, 2003 Author Share Posted May 4, 2003 Ron, I've done some testing and equations here and am now able to reach a few conclusions. The basic formula the computer uses is adding all points earned for both sides and then calculating each sides share of them. So if I destroy 50 VP and my enemy destroys 150 VP, the AI sums up to 200 VP and calculate shares, with an end result of a 75-25 victory for my opponent. Exactly as you described, in other words. This is regardless of force sizes. Meaning that a larger force can theoretically loose more than it is possible to gain from a smaller foe. But that's ignoring many other variables of course. It was a bit of a (pleasant) surprise to me, who have played all these years believing the AI calculated potentials and used these as base. The "casualty value" of a unit seems integral to the "exit denial" value. My tests show that if a vehicle is denied exit, or destroyed and thus also denied exit, the amount of points awarded to the foe is the same. Thus I guess one should see it as a combined casualty-exit denial value. This was also quite a revolutionary discovery for me, and quite pleasing too. The exact relation between "casualty value" and "exit/exit denial value" is not possible to pinpoint. In my tests it has ranged from 1,5 to 4, with exit values always higher. I have not been able to identify the variable explaining this. Nor have I been able to pinpoint the exact relation between vehicle and crew casualty values. It also seems to vary, and again there must be a variable I am missing. But of course one can run any number of tests to trace those variables too. Regards Dandelion [ May 04, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Dandelion ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Huh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted May 5, 2003 Author Share Posted May 5, 2003 That's what I thought initially too, but eventually it makes perfect sense. Cheerio Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 http://thforums.com/CMBO/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=58 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted May 11, 2003 Author Share Posted May 11, 2003 Hey! That was most interesting, thanks Red. Knew I couldn't be the first one to be pondering these things Regards Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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