JerseyJohn Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 HQs as Army Groups Having just lost an HQ in a PBEM game it occurred to me that since they're so slow and useless as fighting pieces they may as well become real pieces as in COS. Why not make them oversized armies as in that earlier game and continue having them serve as the organizer for five other units, as they do now. Instead of being a very vulnerable defensive corps they can be an extra powerful offensive/defensive unit. At least then the slow speed would be offset by something useful aside from supply. Naturally they would cost a lot more than ordinary armies and it would be much more expensive to operate and transport them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer39 Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 How about making HQ's able to join with another unit. This would keep the prices down for those who don't want to keep their hq's on the front, and allow those who do some fire power. Everyone is Happy...........yah right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Condor Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 I see Jersey John that you are a great fan of good oldie COS, you have proposed a lot of things for SC taken from COS and a lot of em very valid indeed, but i dont think that this idea about the HQ is good, i like the HQs in SC much more than in COS, its a great idea from Hubert and i like to see em in the rear, not in the front line, imagine manstein and rommel in the front line trying to break thru, i guess they would cost a lot of MMPs too. I also think that many of the ideas of COS could work fine in a future SC2, but there are also great ideas from people, I think if Hubert takes some of the feedback you can read in the forum about improvememts for SC2, and im sure he will, it will be a great game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 Condor You're right on all counts, I still enjoy COS and only wish they'd have stuck with the concept, improved upon it and made the game playable for WindowsXP (sorry, but too many things fall and go thump with 95/98). Hubert's said on several occasions that he's got bookmarks all over the place and I agree that if he utilizes half the ideas presented by the forum SC 2 will be a vastly improved product. I suppose the corps or army version of HQ can go either way according to personal preferences. My main complaint with this set up is the HQs are the only limited build item in the game and are a bit on the losable side. If they're only corps then I'd like to see a limitless supply of them. I'd like to see that even if the additional nameless HQs are maximum cost with minimum rating as a penalty for running through the original commanders. Thanks for the nod on my overall body of suggestions. After a few months I started reading the scrolls buried at the back of the SC cave and found that numerous others had suggested many of the same ideas before I ever arrived on the scene. It's like trying to find a new plot -- boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl back! A blueprint that works for Romeo and Juliet, West Side Story and both versions of King Kong! [ May 15, 2003, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Condor Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 I know the feeling, been trying myself to install COS in windows to no avail, as i said real good oldie i remember also it was a pain in the ass to move the HQs in russia in the mud seasons, they didnt reach the front line, lol, also with the option Caos in OKV (or something like that) they moved only 1 hex. Imagine now SC2 and with mud they could move only 1 hex and still doing their job giving good readiness to 5 troops, no need for em to fight in the front line. Romeo & Juliet...cant remember those generals sry, and West Side Story, yep, of course you are now talking about the allies invasion in france! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 Condor "Romeo & Juliet...cant remember those generals sry, and West Side Story, yep, of course you are now talking about the allies invasion in france!" -- A hardcore wargammer! The only way I can run either COS or HiCom or any of the other numerous DOS games I still like is on an old DOS machine I held on to. It turns out the basic problem is later machines run too fast for those programs and they crash. Another problem is screen size and 256 colors, etc & so on. It's incredible that this industry got away with making two generations of software obsolete and useless between DOS and Pentium IV. Yes, mud had an amazing effect in that game; Army Group/HQs slowed to one hex and inertia in the mountains! Which I liked. It made a successful bad weather invasion of the Low Countries unlikely and amphibious landings became very hazardous. In effect the only real front became the most southerly Mediteranean hexes such as Sicily, the Gibraltar area, North Africa and the southern Middle East -- exactly as it had been historically! The Russian Winter had drastic effects, again very historical while normal snow made things difficult. High Command went a step further with Extreme Winter which was normally in Scandinavia and Northern Russia, though occasionally it fell on vast areas of the entire continent. I hope Hubert adds things like that to SC 2. [ May 15, 2003, 03:03 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Condor Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 yep, i agree, rusian winter, mud in SC2 could make the fight tuff for germany in russia. Now, in SC, russia is doomed, only option is hide in the urals and wait for patton to knock on berlin's door while the russian soldiers are knockin on heavens door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 Put enough corps along the French coast and even that won't happen. A few links to related topics: The Game Map and Weather. *Hubert -- The North Atlantic! *North America *Weather and SC. Redefinition of HQs in SC. *HQs and Unit Nationality. *Expanded HQ Roles: Stacking with Advance and Retreat after Combat. *HQs for Large Minor Countries -- Mannerheim & Franco etc.. Ideas Concerning Amphibious Tactics in SC -- These posts closely related to ideas posted by Immer Etwas. *Amphibious Operations in SC. *Ideas Regarding An Amphibious Operations Unit. *Amphibious Operations Research Field Hope you see one you may have missed. It's been great discussing things with you but now it's 3:00 a.m. out here and time to finally turn in for a few hours -- Holy Insomnia Batman! [ May 15, 2003, 03:09 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Condor Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 And u want to keep me another night awake with so much information, very interesting and great, some of em troublesome, issues. Most of the issues tend to make the game closer to what really happened, and that is great!, but, this game is simple, no micromanagement, easy to play, fast and funny, i wouldnt like the latter to be lost in SC2, so the problem is not to make the game more real but ALSO to maintain its playability. Stacking of units, for example, or to decide which 5 units we want to be supported by a HQ would make the game much slower, by adding some kind of micromanagement SC now lacks. Always a pleasure to read yer posts and Ive read some very good entries from people that doesnt post nowadays, maybe already waiting for SC2. I hope this brainstorming u guys are doing will help Hubert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer39 Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Ok, how about this as another idea. Add a new tech that modifies HQ's like long range fighters modifies planes. Mech HQ or something. Every level would add some attack value and every other level would add a movement hex. Hq's can be developed into a fighting unit and the game is not made more complex. Problem solved [ May 15, 2003, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: Panzer39 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 "And u want to keep me another night awake with so much information, very interesting and great, some of em troublesome, issues." -- Codename Condor That implication occurred to me this morning after I turned the computer off and I dozed off thinking it was pretty funny. Naturally I didn't intend it to come off that way but I was more asleep than awake. Glad you enjoy the entries as I enjoy yours and agreed 100% about all those good people, and even some of the outright louses (lice?), who have stopped posting. Ah -- nostalgia. Hopefully they'll return as you say when there's something new to discuss. [ May 15, 2003, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 Panzer That's a fine idea. It never occurred to me. There's supposedly only one possible vacant tech spot without altering the game. Shaka's opened a Thread to try and find a likely candidate. EdwinP already has a worthwile idea. If I might be so bold as to suggest this, you're HQ research idea belongs in the running and I hope you enter it for consideration in Shaka's area, which I've linked below. Link to Shaka's Tech Thread [ May 15, 2003, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 In that thread I had suggested the following: I'd like to see a HQ research. Ideas for this would be as follows: 1. Improve HQ defense(air and soft) 2. Increase number of units HQ can supply 3. Increase distance HQ can supply 4. Improve the supply of HQ's. Any combination of the above would work for me. I really like the first two, with some interest in number 3, but not too dramatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 KDG "Any combination of the above would work for me." Agreed entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88mm Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 You could also make the HQ much harder to spot for the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 That's an idea. Also, I think this was suggested by Panzer in a different Thread, give HQs no combat value at all and make them stackable on regular units. They would be invincible in combat, merely moved to a different friendly locataction if the host unit were destroyed or they were overrun. Presumably the only way to destroy them would be by cutting them off completely from a friendly hex; this would need to be more accurately defined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer39 Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 I think this would better simulate real life. Take McArthur for example. His HQ was essentially destroyed; command staff and supplies captured. However, he escaped to fight another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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