Doctoxic Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 Ok - have just started this game yesterday - playing 1941 scenario as Germans on the most difficult setting. Not suprisingly i am getting my ass kicked The biggest thing i have a problem with is the ease that units reinforce even when surrounded, and that fact that they seem to fight on at normal combat values - i would expect for them to crumble a bit easier. It seems that the only way is to just slug it out toe to toe and that strategic maneuvre to cut supplies is not worth it :mad: Anyone agree? or, more likely can anyone give me a few tips to improve my play thanks Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Wagner Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 Are the surrounding units in cities? If so, then this will explain the higher replacement values...this has been debated quite a bit around here and it can be frustrating to pound a unit to 1 strength point just to see it bounce back to a 10...the only solace you have is that any experience the unit had will be lost so it becomes easier to knock out...keep an eye on the entrenchment levels and use your air fleets to knock the value down to zero, which will make your ground attacks more effective.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoxic Posted December 29, 2002 Author Share Posted December 29, 2002 thx J Wagner yep often they are in cities - but even so maybe the supply levels should be higher BUT to reinforce from 1 to 10 when the city is cut off is just ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! good point about using air fleets to take down entrenchment levels - i'll give it a go cheers Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genghis Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 I agree as well that the supply rules seriously need to be revamped for isolated units. Units being surrounded shouldn't be allowed to be reinforced unless the side has airlift/airborne capabilities and diverts air assets to it. I couldn't capture Tobruk from the Italians for over a year despite having complete naval and air superiority and 2:1 supremacy in armies from Egypt. The game situation here was a bit absurd. I can understand the designer's intent to simulate fortress garrisons that held out for periods of time such as those Coastal fortresses along France in 1944 that held out until the end of the war....but this isn't a good solution. I feel that on a strategic level game such as this, if a unit is out of supply, it should remain immobile at least along with it's inability to be reinforced. it can still attack or defend adjacent units but at least the unit can be bypassed by the opposing player without having to worry about it. [ December 29, 2002, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: Genghis ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueristic Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 Definition of a Fortress "An Immobile Target" I think rommel said that but i'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted December 29, 2002 Share Posted December 29, 2002 It's not you, you are right on. I have the same frustration whether I'm in North Africa, Italy or Russia. Totally surround, use all my available land, sea and air power knocking them down to 1 or 2, just to see it pop back up to 8 or 10. Repeat, Repeat, Repeat! I have commented on this before, it should be an easy fix with supply or zone of control type changes. I understand that long seiges can occur in real life (Leningrad) but not this often. At least put some sort of percentage formula in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuomas Seijavuori Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I thought a completely surrounded (all neighboring land hexes occupied) unit couldn't be reinforced. I had this situation with Hueristic today. Leningrad was surrounded by three units and the other three were water. I could not reinforce the city defenders. The silly thing is Leningrad was supplied via lake Ladoga in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueristic Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 i can attest to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genghis Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Actually I should clarify myself on the tobruk reference earlier hehe. obviously Tobruk was a fortress and that held out for a very long time historically. My complaint was the fact that the AI Italian army in SC was able to reinforce the garrison even though the port capacity was reduced 0 supply and my ships physically blockaded it so no Italian ships could go past. I was just amazed that without supply, that Italian army had held out for over 1 year and the combat boiled down to WWI trench warfare. In my next SC game against the AI, I bypassed the North Africa and Med theater and just landed all my armies in France and got excellent results instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Agreed pretty much on what all of you have said here. No point covering good points already made. Like all of you I hope some changes regarding these issues are made in SC2. I'm pretty sure they will be. Each of Hubert's patches have been excellent and he really is responsive to improvements. [ December 30, 2002, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P Wagner Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Does anyone have an idea what SC2 will encompass? A new European version? Pacific? Global? Just wondering if I missed something from a previous thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper_ss Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I actually don't mind the units reinforcing back. If you surround the unit then they can only reinforce back to a 5. Most other instances, the unit can only reinforce back to an 8 unless they are in their home country. Russia is really the only beneficiary of this. Russia should probably need to trace a line to the east side of the board and if not, units in a city should only receive a 5 supply. This would limit them to an 8 max. One benefit of units reinforcing is the attrition that you're winning. Sometimes I delibrately pound a city to a 1 and then have them rebuild up. You might lose a 1 or 2 which is only 10 MPP but they have to spend around 40 MPP. A cheesy tactic but it works in those no honor battles. I do agree though that the supply rules need a little tweaking for non-supplied units in the open. For one, I don't think they should be able to conquer a city behind the lines. You can't just drop in to a city, pop in to McDonald's and suddenly 50,000 men or sustained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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