Supply (another newbie)

[Bromley]

Okay. So it's simple, yet complex. I read around various links and experimented a bit and I think this is right. Corrections appreciated and especially answers to 7, 8 & 9.

1. An HQ within 4 hexes of a city receives 10 (8 if the city is 5 or less).

2. An HQ 5 or more hexes away from a city gets 5.

3. There is little real value in linking HQs. For example, I'm Italian and attacking Egypt. One HQ can be placed at [44,36] (four squares from Tobruk). Any futher HQs between there and Alexandria won't make any difference to my combat units.

4. An HQ will not be able to attach foreign units for command rating and combat morale purposes (i.e. Readiness). It will be able to supply them though.

5. An HQ can supply any number of units within its range. It can only attach five same nationality units (computer's choice based on distance). I think that this has a range of 5.

6. HQ supply of units works differently than City supply of HQs. A unit gets the HQ supply level minus it's distance from that HQ. So a unit adjacent to an HQ that has a supply of 8 will have a supply of 7.

7. Mountains disrupt supply. Anyone know how?

8. City's supply units other than HQs at City supply -1 for each hex. i.e. a unit adjacent to an 8 city would have a supply of 7. I haven't been able to test if there's a max distance limit or if it just goes to zero over the full range of the max supply.

9. No idea how sea supply works.

[pzgndr]

Good questions. The supply issue keeps popping up, mainly because it IS tricky and difficult to grasp. A lot of good info is contained in the Strategy Guide errata thread posted a while back. Do a search and look it over. In the meantime, I'll tackle your questions.

#1 and #2. Incorrect. HQs in range get 10 if the city value is 6 or more, 8 if the city value is 5 or less. "In range" means in normal supply from the city. So a HQ 9 clear hexes from a strength 10 city would still be in normal supply, therefore would get supply 10. A HQ 4 clear hexes from a strength 5 city would get supply 8. Please look at the errata and see if that makes sense.

#3, #4, #5 and #6. Correct. But for #6, supply tracing is the same for both HQs and units; it's the end effect that's different. Units would get whatever the end supply value is; HQs would get 10 or 8 based on the source city value as long as the normal end supply value is at least 1 (ie, not out of supply).

#7 and #8. Supply value drops according to movement cost (MC) for the hexes entered. Marsh and mountain hexes cost 2. So from Athens as a strength 5 city, supply drops to 3 in the 1st mountain hex, 1 in the 2nd mountain hex, and then units are out of supply. Nothing too tricky there.

#9. There is no explicit sea supply in the game. Captured cities cut off from your capital city get max strength value of 5, which implies some abstract sea supply. Out of supply HQs get supply 5, which also implies some abstract sea supply.

Does this help? It seems like there is no good way to clearly explain this stuff. The errata is helpful, but not perfect.

[Terif]

Pzgndr is right, only 2 additions:

1. HQs within supply range of a city will be boosted to full supply. Supply range means the result of the following must be 1 or more:

(current supply level of the city) minus (distance of the HQ from the city (clear Hexes count 1, Swamp/Mountains 2)).

The supply Lv of the HQ depends only on the potential supply level of the city from where the supply is traced. Damaged cities (e.g. at Lv 1-4) also delivers full supply (8/10) for the HQ if it is in range. Only the supply range is reduced for a damaged city (e.g. a lv 4 city has a range of 3 clear hexes, lv 2 city = 1 hex...etc).

2. Sea supply:

Ships are able to store supply and they are supplied from ports instead of cities. Each turn supply of a ship will be decreased by 1 - and not recalculated like with ground/air units.

At the start of each turn it is checked which is the closest port and supply will be traced from this one. If the supply delivered from port is higher than the current supply stored in the fleet, then supply increases to the higher level. Otherwise it stays at the stored value minus one (=supply consumpion).

E.g. a fleet starting from a lv 10 port starts also with supply of 10. If it moves away, after 3 turns supply level will be 10-3 = 7 (after 6 turns: 10-6 = 4). If the fleet moves again into range of a lv 10 port, supply will go up again. If it moves within 2 hexes range supply will be 8. 1 Hex distance = 9. In port again =10...

[pzgndr]

Damaged cities (e.g. at Lv 1-4) also delivers full supply (8/10) for the HQ if it is in range. Only the supply range is reduced for a damaged city

This is yet another very subtle item I and others may have missed! The base city value for HQ supply purposes is not affected by damage? This means a captured city like Brest (base strength 8) reduced to 5 or less by bombing or naval bombardment would still give an HQ in range full supply (10, not 8).

Since captured cities in Russia only have a strength of 5 anyway regardless of partisan effects (ie, max HQ supply is 8) and there are always multiple cities to draw supply from in the West, this effect would be very difficult to notice. I'm hard pressed to think of a good example where this would really matter in a game, where an HQ may actually get full supply of 10 rather than 8.

Like I said, the errata isn't perfect. Terif also clarified naval supply, which is different than overseas supply of ground units.

[Terif]

Yes, the base city supply value of a city for HQ supply purposes is not affected by damages. Damages reduce only the range of the city.

Especially in Russia this is important. If you e.g. capture a russian city with a german HQ, then it has full (8) supply next turn. The city will be burned down to 0 in the turn when it gets captured, but increases to 1 at the start of the next turn, so the HQ is in supply. Each turn the range of the city increases by 1 until the maximum of 4 hexes (=5-1) when it reaches maximum supply of 5.

With Brest its the same, even if it is bombed to zero by Allies, an allied HQ in the city will still have maximum supply (here 8) next turn. For Axis its irrelevant, since they should never place a HQ near Brest if Allies have air superiority - it wouldnt survive very long .

But as Allies you usually dont destroy the city before you capture it - its better to get it undamaged... .

[ February 14, 2004, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

[Desert Dave]

For some strange, and unknown reason... God has decided that ONLY one person per Continent can understand SC SUPPLY rules:

North America... pzgndr.

Europe... Terif.

Now, it is no accident that these are probably two of our very best players... many of us would surely love to see a Heavyweight Championship Match between them, complete with AARs.

Long ago I tried to internalize these SUPPLY rules, and so I did the usual thing and asked many probing questions.

I got so many conflicting and bizarre answers that it PERMANENTLY tangled up most of the Supply Synapses in my brain, and to this day I couldn't explain ANY of it.

Which is why I am NOT one of the better players, and no-one promotes even... a Featherweight Match between me and other similarly handicapped players.

What they do for SUPPLY explanations in deepest Africa, or Asia or any of those sorts of places, I don't know, but there must be some person like pzgndr or Terif who patiently explains all those rules and permutations and exceptions and the like.

I have taken to consulting my local Curandero... who tosses those old yellowed chicken bones into a rusting lunch-bucket and advises me on when to Blitz and when to remain near base-camp and when to give up the Ghost. :eek:

That works best for me, though I do lose at SC more often than not.

What the rest of you can do is... follow the wise ones, one per Continent as God has deemed appropriate, and perhaps one day you too can lay claim to being one of SC's greatest players!! :cool:

[Liam]

A tip for us Tactically Challenged folks like me Or even those who think technical Reading Material is TP!

HQs are just a Supply Booster for places where Units cannot get strength, i.e. 5 supply cities. HQs are also an attack/defense booster for any unit besides Naval ones. The higher rating, higher the Experience of the HQ the better for combat. Keep HQs in safe places like cities, Mountains at least forests... or beyond Air Power

HQs make a usual unit that may only do a few points of damage do several. HQs allow for movement that a remote area could trap a unit and you would lose it. Do not have units on a Frontline without HQ on offensives. You don't need to be a scientist to place them, just use a good Eye. Use your own best Judgement. A big scare, beforwarned of putting HQs in range of UK Carriers and Mix of Air

[ February 14, 2004, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

[Bromley]

Thanks guys, just what I was looking for.

[pzgndr]

For some strange, and unknown reason... God has decided that ONLY one person per Continent can understand SC SUPPLY rules

Oh I certainly hope more than a few of us understand the supply rules. There was some charm in the way the SC rules were perhaps(?) vague on many details, allowing players to discover subtleties and nuances along the way. Sometimes a very very long way for many! But can one imaging playing a boardgame from days of old like that? No. Every player had to know and understand each and every well-defined rule.

It would be best if SC2 provides explicit descriptions of everything the game is doing. Game designers are of course free to create new rules for such things as HQ leadership and supply functions and others, but players need to know exactly what they are to play the game well.

Thanks guys, just what I was looking for.

Glad to help!

[Friendly Fire]

Here is a supply tip, something that confused me for quite a while until I read it on the forum, worth mentioning again:

Hexes adjacent to Paris act as full supply centers. So you don't need to take Paris to fully supply your Overlord expedition...

If you are new to the game, here is another suggestion

In the USSR, as Axis, as the campaign progresses and your HQs move more than 9 hexes away from Supply 10 cities, I suggest you try to keep HQs within 2 hexes of front line units (you want those units at supply level 6 for full re-enforcement). If you don't have enough HQs to keep all your units well supplied, consider purchasing more HQs instead of more ground units. Italian HQs work just as well as German HQ for supply purposes.

Now the Soviets don't need to do this, your units will draw supply from the cities and don't need HQs (for supply). Of course you want the HQs for C&C but you can keep them well back to avoid Axis air...

hope it helps

FF

[ February 16, 2004, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: Friendly Fire ]