Edwin P. Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Summer 1941: All regular minors taken except Spain who will surrender any moment (Madrid taken). Gibraltar also still not on the list of Axis conquests. The answer to preventing the minor rush or making it more costly is to allow Spain to use the MPPS they generate to produce more troops while they are neutral if the Axis attacked Norway or Sweden. and Sweden/Norway to enter into a defense pact if the Axis attacks Vichy or Spain prior to attacking the Nordic countries while also allowing Sweden to produce more units once Norway has been attacked. Perhaps an early attack on Spain or Sweden should have a chance to cause Norway to join the Allies, thus allowing the UK to transport in reinforcing air and land units. [ January 27, 2004, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 That is not a real workable solution. You can DOW Norway and Spain on the same turn if you're a skilled Axis. Better idea is making it impossible for Germany to DOW another Fascist Nation. Secondly, making a "HUGE" penalty for invading the Traditionally Neutral Countries of Switzerland and Sweden. If you're working with the existing '39 Fall Weiss making an edit or HouseRule that say includes no Allied LC-Italian-Spanish-Ireland-Portugal DOWs in trade for now DOW on Spain/Portugal/Sweden or Iraq perhaps that would be best? Plus pushing off Vichy till after Barbarossa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 If we understand why certain nations were not invaded, then the game system can model those conditions. Then, even if the player decides to go ahead and do a invasion, the game system will let him, as long as he pays the cost. One key to this understanding, is that most wargames have a poor understanding of economics. Hence, you get a "Borg" effect, where one side gobbles up a neutral, becomes stronger, which allows them to gobble up another neutral, becoming even stronger, and so on. Thats not how it works in real life, and thats why Germany didn't become an economic powerhouse, because it gobbled up the neutrals of Europe. If the economic and diplomatic models have the proper relationships, than you don't have to have a bunch of special rules to handle those situations. The player will be in the same position as his historical counterpart, and faced with the same geopolitical choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Shaka. "Borg Effect" interesting The penalty now for a Major like Germany invading a Minor Politically is not too too bad. USSR and USA come in faster. The penatly for the UK is laughable. Just the USA is moved back some !!! I think Stalin would have got peed too about Allied Expanionists It would be kewl to have more detailed Neutral Roles to make them more a challenge then a few Armors and Air units and 1 turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted January 29, 2004 Author Share Posted January 29, 2004 Interesting effects - interesting consequences If Germany conquers attacks Sweden there is a chance that Finland will join the Allies - thus freeing Russia to shift 2 Armies from the Finnish Front. If Germany attacks Spain there is a chance that Turkey will annex Syria and Iraq and begin mobilizing troops (with Syria and Iraq its production will exceed that of Italy) in preparation for entering the war at the opportune time as an AI controlled nation (with the goal of conquering Bulgaria, Romania, Albania and Greece - Russian Troops can not enter countries that have surrendered to Turkey unless Russia declares war on Turkey -and Turkish AI controlled troops can not enter Germany or Move north of Hex XXXX) or an ally of the Allies. Perhaps a 5% cumualtive chance per unit built that it enters the war - say 5% at 1 unit , 10% at second unit, 15% at 3rd unit. Naturally there should be a chance that an AI Controlled Turkey returns to its Neutral Status - say 20% afer conquering Bulgaria, 40% after conquering Bulgaria and Romania, 80% after conquering Bulgarian, Romania and Greece and 100% after conquering Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, and Albania ( and that it continues to build its army while Neutral . If the allies attack Neutral Spain then perhaps Turkey annexes Syria and Iraq to finance the mobilization of an AI controlled Army that will restore Egypt to Turkish control, attack Southern Russia when it is ungarded,ie Russia south of Stalingrad, attack Greece or grant Axis ships and transports passage through the Turkish straits. ie: Allies Attack Neutral Spain > Turkey Annexes Syra and Iraq > Turkey Builds an Army and: 25% Grants passage to Axis ships and Transports or 25% Prepares to conquer Egypt or 25% Invades the Caucaus Mountain region of Russia when the Region is undefended. or 25% Does Nothing An Independent AI controlled Turkey could really make a game interesting and rather unpredictable. Especially, if the Turks occassionaly switched sides or returned to Neutrality at the most in-opportune time. Example: Russia is at the walls of Warsaw and the allies have landed in France when all of a sudden Turkey decides to enter into a peace agreement with Germany and launch an attack into the Caucaus Mountains of Russia ( in exchange for Bulgaria, Romania and Albania and the Russia south of Stalingrad.) Germany is at the gates to the Kremlin when Turkey decides to DOW Germany not wanting to see Germany get too powerful. It makes the end-game more interesting , of course this would have to be a player selectable option - Turkey AI [Y/N] [ January 29, 2004, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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