Timosenko Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 -"Actually in most of the war-games I have played, the Winter War is extremely boring." -------------------------------------------- "it's boring", It's not the war's fault, it's either the player or the game if it's boring. I've read lots of arguments about should it or should it not be included. All of the arguments against it are "it had no meaning" or "it's boring", as the other other side is trying to justify it why it should be in. There wouldn't be anything in any game if all the parts somebody felt boring would be removed. There's no point trying to simulate European Theater or WW2 and leave Winter War / Scandinavia out, as it clearly was a part of the WW2 in Europe. And as it has been many times here indicated, lots of meaningful things could have been ended up differently in scandinavia. If you want to relive WW2, you could allways rent a video. Games on the contrary are about choices and alternative plots. In my opinnion it's one of the most interesting war's ever. They took hunting rifles and their own winter clothes as there was not enough equipment for everybody. Despite, I object all changes in patches or in SC2 that make Finland generally stronger, since it should be impossible to feeble generals (also seen here) to reproduce the miracle of winter war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre Bolkonsky Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 It seems to me the fun of a winter war scenario would be demonstrated at the squad and company level. Ski in, set up an ambush, blow away the enemy column, ski away to fight another day. This game operates on a corps/army/army group level. Ergo . . . . . . you lose more than you would gain opening Finland that much earlier. With little else to do, and substantial resources, given the game parameters; Finland would be toast along the same time as the Baltic States, and long before Barbarossa reared its ugly head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Originally posted by Konstatin V. Kotelnikov: I'm sure it's been discussed before but the game mechanics for SC don't seem to support having a winter war. You would have to make the Soviet Union active, fight the war and then it would go inactive again until it was time to fight germany. SC 2 needs two have three alliances instead of two as it stands now. The cooperation between west and the Sovietunion as it folds out in SC is´nt to realistic. Better to use the clash of steel model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konstantin V. Kotelnikov Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Originally posted by Andre Bolkonsky: It seems to me the fun of a winter war scenario would be demonstrated at the squad and company level. Ski in, set up an ambush, blow away the enemy column, ski away to fight another day. This game operates on a corps/army/army group level. Ergo . . . . . . you lose more than you would gain opening Finland that much earlier. With little else to do, and substantial resources, given the game parameters; Finland would be toast along the same time as the Baltic States, and long before Barbarossa reared its ugly head.Exactly Andre, on a tactical level the winter war has some exciting possibilities. Ski troops are awesome. Finnish squad level tactics are interesting when they are confronted by the hoards of soviet troops. On a strategic level it's boring (also the scope of SC). Nov 1939 Russian attacks Finland, Finns Defend, Russian exerts more pressure, Finland capitulates. No one intervenes other than sending some supplies and volunteers because no one needs a war with the USSR when they are fighting on other fronts. It would take a major game change to allow the Western Allies to declare war on the USSR, however Germany certainly could. It would be a disaster for whoever did. If you wanna try it as Germany just declare war in Nov 1939. Do not wait until France and Britian are defeated. That's why it did not happen in the real WWII. Perhaps in the world of "What If's" it would be interesting to see. Has anyone tried this against a human player? I'm sure that against the AI you can pull it off. I would especially like to separate the USSR from the western allies and see what would happen if they went after each other. TSR/SPI's ETO game allowed for this and it was fascinating. And always with the same result. That's what's great about "what if's" they can be endless. -dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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