Doomsday1 Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 First...I am really enjoy the game, both as Axis and as Allies, and against AI or my PBEM nemisis. but... I have a few questions: How can the Italians hang on for 4 years, in the desert, being pummelled by two aircract carriers, the Malta air fleet, 2 British Corps and the Canadian army? Don't they need ammo, or bodies. Did I mention their port is being reduced to zero every turn by 2 British cruisers and a BB. Granted, there are Canadians involved, (just kidding Tom) but come on, look at what they did on D-Day. Next...how can a tank group defeat my US jet, full on strenght 15? Air power spelled doom for panzers. Why did I spent all those MPPs, spent 56mpps to transport, only to have a ragtag 1 Luftwaffe and 1 panzer force anihilate me? Seems hoky to me. Again, as the US progressively eliminated Japan from the fray, shouldn't their MPPs go up? Just reinforcing 1 jet fleet uses up almost their entire allocation. US with about 390 MPPs seems about right. The US is what kept Russia alive with the Murmask lifeline, not to mention England...and it was the US and the marshal plan that rebuilt Europe( Oh I get it...we are saving it for after the war)! The minors...yeah, like the Romanians were ever going to be on the outskirts of Leningrad, or the Italians weren't going to pack up and go home once Sicily is invaded and the threat of Anzio is looming. Last...is it possible to get to any of the post '41 campaign scenarios from any 1939 start in even the most idylic conditions? Lets make it a little more real! :cool: :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammou Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 1st - Send a leader into the desert with your armies and the Italians will fall very quickly. 2nd - If the panzers have a leader and are experienced and you are raw and have no leader you can expect to get your planes shot out of the sky quite often. 3rd - MPP have been discussed a lot re: US numbers. Some of the Soviet MPP are from the US and if you build and research US troops (and wait) you end up in the latter years with about the same size of army as they had. 4th - If you want the Italians to go back home when Italy is invaded, just send them...as to Romanians getting as far as Leningrad, well the Italians got as far as Stalingrad historically - a much farther distance. 5th - Yes. Expert +1 vs AI I can be a bit ahead of the curve by mid 41. 42 is back and forth but by mid 43 I am almost always better. Things get bad for the Allies after that. Cheers, Mammou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolzemFrumFloppen Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Doomsday1: How can the Italians hang on for 4 years, in the desert, being pummelled by two aircract carriers, the Malta air fleet, 2 British Corps and the Canadian army? Don't they need ammo, or bodies. Did I mention their port is being reduced to zero every turn by 2 British cruisers and a BB. Granted, there are Canadians involved, (just kidding Tom) but come on, look at what they did on D-Day. Not to sound caustic, but... why is it that so many people want the game to play out in complete agreement with history? I, for one, am glad to have a game where the Italians can hold out for 4 (or more) years. Again, as the US progressively eliminated Japan from the fray, shouldn't their MPPs go up? Just reinforcing 1 jet fleet uses up almost their entire allocation. US with about 390 MPPs seems about right. The US is what kept Russia alive with the Murmask lifeline, not to mention England...and it was the US and the marshal plan that rebuilt Europe( Oh I get it...we are saving it for after the war)! Ummmm... the Murmansk Lifeline... yeah. But for every German soldier the U.S. killed, the USSR killed twenty. I think the game accurately reflects how the Soviets bear the brunt of Germany's power and shows how they clearly shouldered the most responsibility for defeating Nazi Germany. Now I know this doesn't set well with all the Ambrose-readers out there, but... well,... that's a whole other thread. Again, I like how Hubert has treated the major players historically without setting in stone the eventual outcome. The Axis can win the war and I think that's very important. If Hubert had created an omnipotent (and inaccurate) U.S. that can turn the tide of the war upon entry, well... what point would there be to even playing the game? Remember that it took three years for the allies to open up a real second front. The minors...yeah, like the Romanians were ever going to be on the outskirts of Leningrad, or the Italians weren't going to pack up and go home once Sicily is invaded and the threat of Anzio is looming. Ummm... why not just watch a video documentary on the war; that way there are no surprises. Again, I, for one, am glad it doesn't all play out as it " should have been"; rather, it plays out well by accenting what "could have been". Just my two pfennig. - Holzem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 As originally posted by Holzem: Again, I, for one, am glad it doesn't all play out as it " should have been"; rather, it plays out well by accenting what "could have been". Just my two pfennig. Good point, and for my zwei pfennig, I would agree, except for a few of those small discrepancies that are so ahistorical that they stretch boundaries of disbelief, such as -- having jet-sounds in 1941. There aren't very many of those however, so kudos to Hubert, once again. In general I view it this way -- there are the 3 "Ms" -- momentum, morale and missed opportunities. For momentum/initiative we have the MPPs gained from plunder, which provides an opportunity to make hay while the sun shines, so to speak. For morale, we have HQs and experience gained in combat -- this is an excellent game-design decision which gives the adept player a chance to carefully nurture certain units so that they become reliably fierce spearheads, etc. And as for missed opportunities, we are (... mostly) not akin to those two raving lunatics -- occult-haunted Hitler & preening Mussolini, who, in retrospect, apparently decided to do every inane thing in the political/tactical world to short-circuit the better instincts of their often dumbfounded :eek: military leaders. Instead, we can cooly :cool: and calmly use the resources at hand to enact our own version of world conquest -- using those what-if strategies that we prefer... I like it! (... and as I was raving about a two-turn conquest of Sweden! to my neighbor just the other day, well... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DiFool Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Doomsday1: First...I am really enjoy the game, both as Axis and as Allies, and against AI or my PBEM nemisis. but... I have a few questions: How can the Italians hang on for 4 years, in the desert, being pummelled by two aircract carriers, the Malta air fleet, 2 British Corps and the Canadian army? Don't they need ammo, or bodies. Did I mention their port is being reduced to zero every turn by 2 British cruisers and a BB. Granted, there are Canadians involved, (just kidding Tom) but come on, look at what they did on D-Day. I am curious about sea supply: shouldn't bombarding the port reduce supply levels of any unit dependent on said port? Or is sea supply not modeled in this game? John DiFool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arax3 Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 It is very difficult for the AI to effictivly get the Italians out of the war. See, the AI refuses to invade North Africa, or Italy and lets the Italians sit back and reach Industrial level five and ... send lots of troops to France as garrison or to the the Russian Front to plug holes in the Axis lines as cannon fodder or fight off the partisans. The historical war saw the Italian army evicerated (good word Dorosh?) in Africa and in the their aborted effort to take Greece. They were ready to throw in the towel in '43 and the Nazis expected then to to so. L3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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