zappsweden Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 There is not alot of ppl that have claimed to won the game thanks to bombing. I can claim the opposite thought. An example of what allies can do: If allies choose to spare their air from high losses they can have 3 air fleets, 1 bomber and 1 hq in England at the time when axis attacks Russia. If UK has good air technology (Jet aircraft is most important but also advanced bomber) they can really force the axis to divert air units to France unless they want to suffer by bombing. In 1941-1942 UK is too weak to get France anyway, so a bombing campaign is the edge that UK needs and it gets his HQ and air units experienced enough to be powerful when USA joins the fight. case a) Axis has some air in france: UK can bomb (with escorts) resources and thereby force the axis to use money for reinforcing his air losses. This can be a great help to the Russians. case Axis transfers BIG amounts of air to France: If Axis transfers BIG amounts of air units, well then at leist he cannot use them in Russia so the UK player better back of (far up north in UK or in canada) to avoid being slaughtered. case c) Axis ignores the threat: UK will gain experience and Axis economy will suffer, that is if UK has level 2 bombers or better. Remember that any capital cities or mines (totally destroyed) will cost the axis 16-20 MPP per turn in lost income and a british bomber is capable of keeping 5-6 resources on constantly low values. [ January 03, 2003, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: zappsweden ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfedoroff Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I would like to see Srategic bombers hit cities even if they are garrisoned by a corps. This would allow disruption of operational movement when opponents city is below strength #5. Interdiction is just as important as damaging supply. This would make Strategic bombers even more useful. Sincerely, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konstantin V. Kotelnikov Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I noticed in games against the AI that you can often exploit it's desire to repair air units to the detrement of it's ground units. Against the AI I don't like killing its air units. Usually just knock them down to 2 or 3 stength. The AI will spend its MPP to restrengthen them, only to have them knocked down the next turn using the rotating planes method. If it works, soon its land units will start to suffer. It won't work against a human player as they tend to move air units. Combined with bombing things start to hurt. I don't know what everyones priority on targets is, but I always like to bomb the mines instead of cities. Each point of damage kills 2 mpps unlike a city that is one for one (except capitals which are usually garrisoned). Of course if you take the city below 5 they can't build there, but alas, big countries have lots of cities they can build in. To bad we can't bomb garrisoned cities. I guess all those troops are standing on top of the factories allowing themselves to be hit instead of the production plants. Some even have tennis rackets and use them to swat the bombs away. D'oh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappsweden Posted January 3, 2003 Author Share Posted January 3, 2003 You must not forget that the cost of bombing is not only the immediate cost but also a cost of reduced cities that have less income for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfedoroff Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Furthermore: For SC2 I would like to see an interdiction factor calculated for each land hex, the results of which would effect land movement. (Example): For each land hex the the total strength point number of Allied air fleets with range to that hex, would be compared to the Axis air fleet strength points. (Consider Stategic bombers NOT being used in this calculation if you incorporated ability of said strat. bombers to hit garrisoned cities). Through playtesting a factor of the difference between Allied and Axis air fleet strength points would be determined to effect interdiction of land movement. (Example): Forty allied air fleet strength points can reach a land hex that can also be reached by ten Axis air fleet strength points. 40-10= 30 and any land hex dominated by 30 air fleet strength points adds +1 to movement cost of land unit to enter -or- leave that hex. This calculation might be used to effect supply as well. The whole point of this interdiction rule would be to stop the "dance of the corps" that you see used to stop amphib. assualts. This would recreate the Normandy situation in June of 1944. (Would also recreate situation Axis desired for pre-condition of Sea-Lion). My wife tells me I will find a job soon and that I will not be able to clutter up your forum anymore. Lucky you! Sincerely' Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueristic Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Originally posted by kenfedoroff: Furthermore: For SC2 I would like to see an interdiction factor calculated for each land hex, the results of which would effect land movement. that would be a nice addition and would add a nice twist. But again You would have to set the squadren To Mission "Air superiority" For it's Value to be used in your hypothetical calculation as it would not be available to perform other missions I.E. Escort/Bombing. Maybe a random Chance to be avail for Escort if needed. (was called off Interdiction to escort. Or levels Could be applied to mission priority. I.E> If escort duty needed unit has higher priority to perform that and is "pulled" from interdiction Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaWolf_48 Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Strategic Bombing in this game has no meaning. If I Destroy 1 or 2 Mpps of Germany Cities during a bombing, and lose just one, sometimes more, points of Bombers, how many Mpps worth of points did I gain. None. I just loss 30 times the points. How long will it take for the US to make up those losses? Am I missing something! Please tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappsweden Posted January 3, 2003 Author Share Posted January 3, 2003 SeaWolf_48, You are missing the fact that, say i use my level 3 bomber and bombs a sea port down from 10 to 0. This will immediatley cost the enemy 10MPP, BUT it will also cost him REDUCED MPP from that port until it has been rebuilt to level 10. That is 10 (immediate)+10+9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1=65MPP! [ January 03, 2003, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: zappsweden ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfedoroff Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Originally posted by SeaWolf_48: Strategic Bombing in this game has no meaning.It's not so much that strategic bombing has no meaning, but that the interdiction factor is missing that would give it's due. That and the fact a garrisoned city can't be damaged. I am reading a book called "JG 26, Top Guns of the Luftwaffe" by Donald L. Caldwell (Thanx Santa) It describes how the Axis could not ignore the bomb capacity of the B-17 and the war of attrition that took place in the air in the West. That it takes a lot of tech. points/advances to recreate this effect in SC, I agree. I have just started playing SC vs. Humans so I don't know if the air war of attrition occurs very often. I know I scribble too much in your forum about interdiction, but it would have a big effect on the Axis playing fast and loose on the Eastern Front. (how many Axis players station a panzer corp in the West when they know they can operate one from Kharkov to France or Sicily in one turn?) Also, a local interdiction effect on unit supply by air fleets might force players to focus more on local air superiority in certain sectors where they anticipate offensive operations. Sincerely, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfedoroff Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Hueristic: You are right about the difficulty of deciding which air fleet is assigned for interception or interdiction. But since it's my understanding that air fleets contain a mixture of fighters and light bombers,(at least in the present form of SC) for simplicities sake my example would include all air fleets in good supply. If SC2 has separate squadrons of fighters, then yes, it would be a problem of selecting different missions. Sincerely, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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