xediel Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 i don't know did you discuss factories for sc2... what i mean to give importance to strategic bombers factories could be added to existing towns and in case you damage a factory (there could be more types ex. tank factory) depending on the amount of damage and no. of factories the cost of building and reinforcement cost would rise up to the level where you couldn't reinforce that type of unit that turn.. i'm not sure but something like that could work ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disorder Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 damage to factories (cities or otherwise) would therefore make research that much more costly. is that what you were thinkin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xediel Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 yes something like that.. in example you have 5 air fleets but a strategic attack on your air fleet factory made some damage... and you wan't to buy a new fllet it should cost you more depending on damage normal price is 400 but now it costs you 425, 450 depending on the amount of damage or even you are not allowed to buy an additional air fleet and as a bonus those fleets that you already have cost more to reinforce or are not allowed to reinforce.. so strategic bombing is making it count ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xediel Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 i thought about it would be good if you could even build factories or move of course for a cost ie 1000 mpp factory and 15 turns until it is fully operational and moving should cost you half the price and should also last some time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disorder Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 so an aerial attack on a port city with shipyards would make ships and subs more costly there. quality wouldnt go up or down, but costs would. maybe some factories could not be spotted from the air. tank factories could be struck and carted from the russian front to siberia, with built-in additional costs. does this agree with your idea? what about destruction of a factory? does this mean you can only produce when factories are involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xediel Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 why not.. and yes factories could be destroyed and even taken by the enemy what would give a great strategic importance for certain cities.. now by strategic bombing you take away mpps from the enemy and lets say the enemy has a tank factory in the city you are bombing.. there should be given beside the mpp you take away from the enemy i don't know say 5 % of chance of hitting the factory and the damage should be random but in some way dependant on tech level and experience of strategic bombers further more you should be able to move your factories.. you know that some city is going to fall in a few turns and you order a move of the factory and it starts.. say 15 % per turn is moved and it costs you i don't know 1/3 of the production price of the factory... no factory = no production Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorber Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Let each city/factory produce one thing at a time and let the production take a number of turns. Let the city have a certain value/production points to simulate the Ruhr or any other area. If the enemy take the city production is aborted and can be used by him to produce his units. Ofcause he would have to wait until production points was built up again, oh say by 5MPP each turn or so. Air attacks/sea bombardments would snatch MPP:s from the factorys/shipyards. This implies scrapping of the MPP idea or rather a breakdown of the MPP idea into having each factory to have its own MPP value and not a nation wide MPP system. Produced units would be embarked on the factory that produced it and not free to place within any city limits as now. It would take one or two turns to allocate it into the battlefields far away depending on distance. Only seaside factorys can produce warships and maybe only certain factorys can produce tanks? (All factorys could produce army units but not all could produce tank detachments?) Example: a certain city has 50 MPP each turn to use for production. If an army takes 200 MPP to produce it would take unntil the fifth turn before the unit could be introduced (Unless the enemy as bombing the factory and snatching a number of MPP:s each turn making the production take 1-2 turns longer depending on AA protection and values) Then have mines and oilfields that has to be controlled in order to have those MPP:s roll in each turn. If an oilfield is lost MPP:s would be lowered evenly across the production lines. Sonds like Hicom? It is pretty much so... /Gorberdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 To implement the factory idea, you are basically talking about a totally different economic system. Multiple economic resources and various production capabilities. If you are gonna go down this path, you might as well throw manpower into this mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorber Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 I actually think it could be kept quite simple. What do you mean by throwing in manpower? a limit in manpower like in HOI? well yes why not: manpower decrease depending on what unit you build and increase when you conquer countries. If all things are kept as simple as possible (for example no need to allocate exact oil and material resources to be able to build like in hicom) we could have a system that simulates the real deal of having to conquer and control key sites to be able to suceed. What i would like to have is something that is a little more close to reality than just the MPP system. But.. yes it would take som work im sure to implement. Would be nice to know Huberts plans for SC2... is it posted somewhere? /Gorber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaWolf_48 Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 To Xediel Very good point on the Air War over Germany, right now bombing ports or cities is all the same. This would make Strategic bomb more historic. As pointed out before on this forum, oil refining was the bottle neck that destroyed germany's war machine, if that could be portrade in SC that would be great. Putting refineries on the map and trying to defend or bomb them would be meaningful. Not on the same point but still the same idea is the the War in the Atlantic, and germany's try to starve England. This aspect doesn't show up in SC very well. How many (to use a SC term) MPP's did the allies spend on defending, shipping, and transporting during WW2? More than the 10 or so stopped by a nazi u-boat now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 gorber There is nothing definite about what economic system the future SC will use. Quite a few of us, including myself, have discussed various ideas. I tried to put together the ideas for a "simplified" model that used economic resources. If you are interested, I can find it, its somewhere back there in those old postings. I can't remember is someone else presented there own model version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorber Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Shaka, I would appretiate if you could find it! Basically i would like to have this: (yes i am repeating myself and possibly others) A simple system where three different resources are needed to keep the war industry going at full speed: - Factorys - Oil - Mines/ore By this we could have a driver that simulate the need to hold key sites instead of just holding cities that all have 10 MPP. It would also boost the need for diplomacy (trade with neutral and allied countries) and the importance of Scandinavia and other areas. - Citys produce and have different production values depending on their "industrial strenght" - Oil and ore is needed to keep producing - Producing cant go faster than the resources allow. (Bottleneck factor) - Production takes time (unit production cost / factory strenght) - Lost cities loose their production (the partially built) If one would like to keep it really simple there could be a system of having just an "nationwide efficiency factor" depending on the resource sites under control. For example if Germany had a total production capacity of 500 in one particular turn, but the oil is a bottleneck having a value of 400 making the production go at a lower rate of 80%. All factorys goes at a speed of 80%. If the "ore bottleneck" would have been say 450 it would not have an impact as the oil is the main problem. Furthermore we could then add the importance of having open supplylines to conqured areas. Also the enemy could concentrate on one resource for example oil to crumble production wich would make AA and defence a more importance factor (read leave defending units in conqured citys) Instead of reducing cost for producing units as today, industrial research could instead raise production capacity. A techtree for refining ore and oil would then also have to be implemented. /Gorber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Gorber Wouldn't it be easier for you to say "put the HC economic model into SC"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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