Blashy Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I did some reasearch and did the best I could within the limits of SC and the editor. I had 3 hotseat playtests and it seems to work, quite exciting, somewhat trench war, like the Guns of August mod of JJ but with a little more movement because of the Hun cavalry. Here are the rules: ROME versus Attila King of the Huns. Default settings: Free French: off Yugoslav partisans: off Soviet partisans: off Scorched earth: on War in Siberia: on Fog of War: players choice USA: Neutral Axis & Allied minors: Neutral Italy (Roman Empire) and Russia (HUNs) are already at War: random House Rules: The Allies (HUN Empire) starts 1st to represent their speed and element of surprise it had. The Roman Armies currently in place have 1 experience, simulating Roman military training. The OPERATION feature will NOT be used, railroads was not even a word in those days. The USA Army on Paris will NOT be attacked by the Romans nor will it be moved by the HUNs it just sits there the whole match, this is to keep the Romans from taking France and then having a Vichy France government installed. As well it is also to prevent the HUNs from liberating France which would NEVER be considered liberation having the HUNs come to Gaulle (France), The French were not happy to be under Roman control, but they would never have accepted HUNs taking over. So by not touching Paris, that city remains "neutral" and no one profits from the MPP it generates, the Scots do but they can't build new units. The Scots (represented by US Army troops) are not allowed to buy more troops, except for Corps for their city and if they ever take Manchester. They can replenish their starting units. Neutral countries can be invaded if the player so wishes, except for USA and Canada. If you attack Sweden there is the obvious plane, just tell yourself it is a crude catapult =) . Corps units are placed from the start on each city, ports, mines and oil fields. Those units represent a "police" force, they can NOT be moved and they can not attack, they can only defend, simulating a city under siege and awaiting the enemy to come at the gates (attacking) to retaliate. They start at various strengths depending on what they are policing. You can increase their levels to maximum. Should a Corp be destroyed on the site it was defending, it is permitted to purchase another Corp for replacement. Corps are only allowed to be purchased for guard duty on cities, ports, mines or oilfields. And remember then can only defend, never attack. You are not allowed to move a corps out of a city to have a better unit take its place, if you wish to do so, you must disband the Corps. The only time a Corps can be moving outside a city is to move to a mine, port or oilfield for guard duty, it must do nothing else but make its way to the location. Both Empires can by Rockets, representing siege weapons. Since they are siege weapons they can only be used to attack cities and maginot lines. Roman Empire: They have 2 Legions (Armies) in the UK, as long as both remain, the Scots (Represented by 3 US Army troops) will NOT attack, if one or both are moved away from their current location, the Scots played by HUN (Allied) can attack Manchester but will NOT attack London. Romans are only allowed 1 Tank unit (Cavalry) and can only purchase Armies (Legions) and Rockets (Siege weapons). They are allowed 3 Generals, 2 already on the map at the start of the game. HUN Empire: If 1 of the 2 Legions in the UK move away from the Front lines facing the 3 Scottish Armies (represented by USA), you are allowed to engage Manchester if you so wish. London will not be attacked. Only 2 Generals are allowed at anytime for the HUNs. Both of which are already on the battlefield. The HUNs are only allowed to purchase Tanks (cavalry) and Rockets (siege weapons). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Blashy Can't take credit for the Guns of August Mod, which is CvM's, but thanks for mixing me up with such distinguished company! Great concept. The few things I'm wondering about are the Eastern Empire with the Persians/Parthians always pushing on it's borders. Also the Goths, who were in their Roman Alliance cycle, so they're part of the Empire, which is good as they wouldn't have turned while the Huns were still dominating central Europe. A very good idea all around and by representing such a short period and limited subject it elimates some stumbling blocks, like ancient naval actions. Your foot and hand prints and signature are now on the SC sidewalk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 We don't really see the Persians and Pathians because the map is too small, although many legions are in the Middle east because of that AND Attila did move in on the Eastern part of the empire but did not push forward. This was mainly due to it being such a mountainess area. New rules I added: Transports can only be used by the Romains. The Hun can use a transport in one circumstance. If they have conquered Finland they may transport to Sweden, simply because those countries are connected by land. If the Huns conquer Sweden and Norway and wish to bring troops back they can only do so via the Swedish port and MUST bring them back to the Finnish port only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl G. E. von Mannerheim Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Can't take credit for the Guns of August Mod, which is CvM's, but thanks for mixing me up with such distinguished company Heh, damn Guess he didnt read the 'read me' CvM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by Carl G. E. von Mannerheim: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Can't take credit for the Guns of August Mod, which is CvM's, but thanks for mixing me up with such distinguished company Heh, damn Guess he didnt read the 'read me' CvM </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 Some rule changes have been made. UK and France capitals are now Romans. So at the end of the 1st Roman turn they will get plunder from those cities (average 850-900 each). This actually works out better. From what I've read the Romans were not fully combat ready when Attila started his campaign. So what I've done is remove 7 starting Armies from the front lines the equivalent of what you get in MPP plunder. This simulates what I've read that many legions (10) were spread out in the empire (Spain 1, Italy 1, Germany 4, Syria 4, Iraq 2) the rest are at the front, fully entranched and ready for battle, the cities are also entrenched but undermaned, they simply closed the gates when they heard the Hun hoard was coming. Of course this being SC this will cause a Vichy France to be created, on the next Allied turn ALL Vichy troops will be disbanded for an easy reconquering of the lands by the Romans, which for this one instance are allowed to by 3 Corps to occupy all 3 Vichy France cities. I've removed 1 starting Army to compensate for the plunder received from this action. Should the Huns make it all the way to Paris and "liberate" it, the French forces will NOT attack along side the Huns, what it will try to do is man its cities with Corps and remain there, simulating the Gaule resistance to the Hun incursion (which really happened). If the Hun manage to take all cities before this can be done, France is simply ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 To say the Romans weren't combat ready is the understatement of the ages. At that point in their history defense of the Empire, or it's two separate halves, consisted mainly in bribing potential invaders to not invade them. Attila and his Hun relatives sometimes accepted bribe money and invaded anyway! Attila did that several times with the Eastern Empire. As you mention, the Balkan terrain was rough enough that he didn't take it as far as it might otherwise have gone. But in the end the Easterns kept upping the bribe till it became ruinous. By then the Huns were very rich. A generation earlier the Huns were Romes Allies, which meant they were paid to fight the Visigoths as a Roman mercenary army. When Ailla became the Hun leader the situation had changed completely, the Visigoths were being paid to help fight the Huns. So convaluted was the situation that at the end of the Chalons (?) Bloodbath the Roman general did not finish off the Huns for fear of having the Visigoths, fighting beside them, immediately become the new enemy! Rome had already done itself in centuries earlier through regular internal power struggles. Aside from which, the empire never recovered from runs of the plague beginning about the time of Marcus Aurellius. When Attila turned to invade Northern Italy it was only a huge bribe from the Pope that turned him back again. Even then he was planning a second campaign along the same route when he died unexpectedly. Both the withdrawal and his death were chalked up to miracles and the Roman Catholic Church became firmly established over it's Greek and Egyptian rivals. The situation itself is sheer insanity. The worst part is Attila didn't want to conquer anything. He was a terminal parasite who wanted to loot regions on a rotation basis, returning to each after it had rebuilt for a new round of looting. Most of the other enemies of Rome had similar inclinations. In the east, the Parthian/Persians would have been the sole exception. Had they not been destroyed by the Muslim expansion and again by the Mongols they might well have emerged as one of History's great empires. Rome, at this point, reminds me of a dying beast infested with maggots even while still alive and scratching at them. The Huns were awsome, but when equally awsome plundering maggots showed up in earlier centuries they were dealt with promptly. Trajan, conqueror of Parthia in 210 A.D., the only Roman Emperror to sail the Caspian Sea Persian Gulf, would have crushed them as recreation. His problem was unique, a great general with a great army and no legitimate enemy to inflict himself upon! He went after Parthia demanding the return of Crassus eagles from a two hundred year old fiasco. The Parthians at first couldn't even find them, then they turned up and were sent to Trajan with profuse appologies and the Roman general/emperror accepted the relics, then invaded and conquered them anyway! His sidekick, Hadrian, eventually poisoned him and pulled the borders back to their starting point. The Parthians, aside from being relieved, must have been surprised as hell! If Augustus and Julius Caesar were resurrected to see the deplorable state things had degenerated into by the time of Attila, they'd probably have committed suicide on the spot! [ October 08, 2003, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 Yep, I know the whole story as well. This is why I'm making this mod, the Romans saved up for year for Tribute, the plunder from UK and France is the tribute but this time they have a leader who his going to stand up to Attila and say, just try and take us out "Scourge of God". The Visigoths were on the Roman side the last time they were at war with the Huns, I'll do some editing and use the Germans as the Visigoth "barbarians" which for the most part were all from German land. Tonight the mod will be complete and I'll see if SCHQ will host it, as well as my No units MPP only WW2 mod. So far I'm enjoying the Rome vs. Attila mod more than any other, even the Guns of August, which I love. For being limited to so little diversity in units, it is quite fast paced and lots of action, mainly in part because both Empires have a lot of MPPs, the Romans have much more at the start. [ October 08, 2003, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Blashy ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Blashy You did a great job both in researching that slice of history and presenting it as a human vs human scenario. The whole point is to have fun and be creative. Your scenarios help prove how versatile and adaptable the basic concept is. [ October 08, 2003, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 These are the final rules, I have playtested (HOTSEAT), so far it is excellent. Although I might be biased, :eek: . ******************************** ROME versus Attila King of the Huns. Set up: For many years Attila had been receiving HUGE tributes of gold from the Romans to buy peace. The tribute was collected for a year and then Attila would meet with Roman diplomats to receive payments. This time, seeing the decline of the Roman empire the ruling Emperor had enough. Dreaming of bringing Rome to its former glory he planned to use the tribute to mobilize his troops throughout the empire and challenge Attila. He managed to get the Visigoths to agree fighting alongside the Romans and they mobilized what troops they had to the borders of Rome and the Huns. Spies brought this information to Attila and he immediatly started to march on the Roman Empire. The romans were caught by surprise although scouts reported the oncoming Hun Cavalry and manage to prepare what troops they had near the Roman / Hun borders, still reinforcements where not too arrive for months, it would be a difficult challenge, knowing the HUN empire was twice the size (historic fact). The Roman military experience and tactics would have to hold should the empire achieve victory in its greatest war ever. Default settings: Free French: off Yugoslav partisans: off Soviet partisans: off Scorched earth: on War in Siberia: on Fog of War: players choice NO research is allowed. USA: Neutral Axis & Allied minors: Neutral Italy (Roman Empire) and Russia (HUNs) are already at War: random Germans represent the Visigoths. House Rules: The Allies (HUN Empire) starts 1st to represent their speed. The Roman Armies currently in place have 1 experience, simulating Roman military training. The 2 Roman Generals in place have level 2 experience. Attila has level 3 experience 2 other Generals are already in place with no experience. Generals can NOT be replaced. Since Generals can not defend themselves they will NOT be attacked except in the following circumstances: The following are simply because the General unit in SC can not attack or defend itself and in the days of the Roman empire Generals of each waring party usually had some of their best troops guarding them and rode fast horses. -If a player uses a General to block the way to the enemy the General can be engaged. -If the enemy moves forward next to a General it will not attack the unit, if on its next turn the other player has not moved his General then it may be attacked ONLY by the opposing units that were next to it the previous turn. -If a General is cornered it will not be destroyed, it will be kept "prisoner for 2 turns and then it will be let go to make its way back to its troops. The OPERATION feature will NOT be used, railroad was not even a word in those days. UK and France capitals are Roman. At the end of the 1st Roman turn the Romans will get plunder from those cities (average 850-900 each). The Romans were not fully combat ready when Attila started his campaign. What I've done is remove 7 starting Armies the equivalent of what you get in MPP plunder. This simulates that many legions (10) were spread out in the empire (Spain 1, Italy 1, Germany 4, Syria 4, Iraq 2) the rest are at the front, fully entranched and ready for battle. The cities near the borders are also entrenched but undermaned, they simply closed the gates when they heard the Hun hoard was coming. The plunder only being available on the 2nd turn for the Roman empire simulates mobilization of the legions who are spread out throughout the Empire, which works out great for historical purposes. This being SC it will cause a Vichy France to be created when France surrenders, on the next Axis turn, declaration of war shall be done, the Axis will not attack Vichy troops. The 3 Corps that were policing the cities can start moving forward to take back the cities. Following the next Allied turn ALL Vichy troops will be moved out of the cities and ships from ports for an easy reconquering of the lands by the Romans. I've removed 1 starting army to compensate for plunder, which helps simulate how long it would have taken for the 1 legion stationed in Spain to make its way to the Front. Should the Huns make it all the way to Paris, they can take all the cities EXCEPT Paris, this simulates the Gaule resistance, which really happened (By not receiving full MPP from French cities and MPP from Paris to the Hun incursion). The Scots (represented by US Army troops) are not allowed to buy more troops, except for Corps for their city. They can replenish their starting units. Neutral countries can be invaded if the player so wishes, except for USA and Canada. If you attack Sweden there is the obvious plane, just tell yourself it is a crude catapult =) . Corps units are placed from the start on each city, ports, mines and oil fields. Those units represent a "guarrison" force, they can NOT be moved and they can not attack, they can only defend, simulating a city under siege and awaiting the enemy to come at the gates *(attacking) to retaliate (defending). They start at various strengths depending on what they are "policing". You can increase their levels to maximum. Should a Corp be destroyed on the site it was defending, it is permitted to purchase another Corp for replacement. Corps are only allowed to be purchased for guard duty on cities, ports, mines or oilfields. And remember then can only defend, never attack. You are not allowed to move a corps out of a city to have a better unit take its place, if you wish to do so, you must disband the Corps, the resource you get from the disband simulates the garrison doing other duties. The only time a Corps can be moving outside a city is to move to a city, mine, port or oilfield for guard duty, it must do nothing else but make its way to the location. Should another unit other than a Corp be guarding a city, mine, port or oil field it is allowed to attack and move out of the city if the player wishes to do so. Both Empires can by Rockets, representing siege weapons. Since they are siege weapons they can only be used to attack cities. Roman Empire (Italy): They have 3 Legions (Armies) in the UK, as long as 2 remain, the Scots (Represented by 3 US Army troops) will NOT attack, if 2 or more are moved away from their current location, the Scots played by HUN (Allied) can attack Manchester and London. If they liberate England the UK (now under Scottish rule) is allowed to build Corps for cities and Armies to protect its lands but will NOT do anything else. The Romans are allowed to try and take over all of England. Romans are only allowed 1 Tank unit at anytime, they may purchase another if the active one is destroyed (Cavalry) and can only purchase Armies (Legions) and Rockets (Siege weapons). They are allowed 3 Generals, 2 already on the map at the start of the game. Visigoths, roman ally (Germany): They have 2 Cities I mine and 1 port, they are not allowed to expand. They are only allowed to purchase Corps. Which are allowed to move into battle, except for the starting units on cities, mines and the one guarding the port, which are all named Garrison. The Visigoths have 2 Generals, this is simply to ensure the troops have constant leadership, Visigoths were well led by the Romans and had their own Leaders as well. They start with 7 Corps at the front and are fully entrenched. They are not allowed to use transports, the ports they control simply represents resources from fisheries and the like. Hun Empire: If 2 or more Legions in the UK move away from the front lines facing the 3 Scottish Armies (represented by USA), you are allowed to engage Manchester if you so wish. If they liberate England the UK (now under Scottish rule) is allowed to build Corps for cities and Armies to protect its lands but will NOT do anything else. Only 3 Generals are allowed at anytime for the HUNs. All of which are already on the battlefield. The Hun are only allowed to purchase Tanks (cavalry) and Rockets (siege weapons). The Hun are not allowed to use tranports. Under one circumstance are they allowed to do so. If the HUN conquer Finland, they are allowed to transport troops to Sweden only (simulating)the land connection). If Sweden, as well as Norway is conquered and the Hun player wishes to bring back troops he can only do so via the Swedish port and send the troops to the Finnish port, once again simulating the land connection between Sweden and Finland. [ October 09, 2003, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: Blashy ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 I've sent this mod to Otto, he is kind enough to host it for you all to try and enjoy. If anyone wants to have a PBEM match with me on this I would love to. Just one thing, I want to play the big bad Attila :mad: :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 If I weren't so backed up I'd love to give it a shot, but I doubt you want to wait a week or more for my replies. I'm trying to pick up the pace on my existing games but once every four or five days isn't much better. I'm sure you'll find more than one or adversary by day's end. Looking forward to hearing how it actually plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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