Variants?

[John DiFool]

I brought this up (IIRC) sometime earlier this

year, and since nobody else has decided to

mention it...

In SC1 of course any variants would not be hard-

coded into the game, and many good ones would not

be doable at all because of how the game engine

works. In any event you might need a third party

(GM) to handle some of the 'sneakier' ones. All

that said...

The below variants can be broken down into

several categories: tech, units, and political:

They are just examples to spark ideas, and I make

no guarantees for game balance:

Tech

More modern French air force. +1 to Jet Tech at

start of game.

Improved Italian infantry training and doctrine:

represented by +1 to anti-tank.

Better French command and control: A French HQ

starts the game (at half-strength) on the board,

and +1 to anti-tank.

[i'd like to do the same with the Russians-no

purges-but alas cannot :confused: ]

Germans decide to pursue drop tank technology:

+1 to long-range aircraft, and they start with a

chit in that category.

Units

Germans pursue long-range bomber tech: start with

a half-strength bomber, and +1 to bomber tech.

French group their tanks, without dividing them

up piecemeal amongst their infantry divisions.

A French tank starts the game next to Paris, but

all infantry units on continent start at 8 strength.

British...hmm. Aside from what Bill did in his

scenario (extra units in the Med at partial

strength), I can't think of anything here. An

armor unit? A sub? A Lend-Lease cruiser?

Political

A less isolationist fervor in US. US entry starts

at 20.

A more pro-Axis Turkey. If Stalingrad is

captured by the Axis, 50% chance of Turkish entry

into Axis camp that turn and each turn thereafter.

[the Russian player would have to do a DOW of

course at the urging of the GM]

Low Countries more pro-Allied. A 33% chance of

entry onto Allied side the turn after Poland falls,

and each turn thereafter [the German would have

to declare war, but without crossing the

border for one turn].

-------------------

These are just some ideas, like I said. I think

they can be easily doable, IF both players are

honest about it [AI games may be a problem]. Of

course [Hubert! ] it would be kewl if these

were coded options in SC2 [perhaps via the use of

some sort of scripting tool?]...

John DiFool

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by John DiFool:

I brought this up (IIRC) sometime earlier this

year, and since nobody else has decided to

mention it...

And you aren't the only one, as I and several others have also championed this idea since last Spring as well.

Judging by the vast and excited response from our free spirited and always open minded! forum members, we may well see our dreams realized!

And so, I am fully in agreement with you. This is an area that would greatly enhance gameplay, and would provide even more re-playability.

Ever the optimist, I am guessing that we WILL see some variants in the next SC. :cool:

[Der Panzinator]

Aren't these all things that can be done with the campaign editor???

Except for maybe changing political factors you can change country's starting units and technology using the campaign editor. If you want to give France 30 tanks with +5 Heavy tank research then you can do this. Not that you would want to but the option is there.

[JerseyJohn]

John DiFool

I'm also in favor of variants and if I understand what you're saying, you'd like to see a varied range of starting possibilities instead of the same set every time a game is played.

The only possibility I don't see is the Germans having to declare war on the Low Countries and sit on the border a full turn before invading. Why? If the idea is to simulate the Dyle plan, why not have a Dyle Plan variant where the B. E. F. and two French armies are in the Low Countries but not well placed.

It's been my experience in PBEM play that when the allies invade the Low Countries and establish themselves in a defensive line running along the Meuse-Ardennes-Maginot Line they are very hard to dislodge and with proper play it takes a long time for Germany to do so -- meanwhile, the turns roll by and Russia and the U. S. come closer to entering.

As a player I enjoy playing against the strongest rather than weakest enemy actions, but something should be given in return. Possibly a much longer delay in Russo/American entry level if France doesn't fall. Originally it was Stalin's idea to sit back and wait while Germany and the Allies bogged down once again in Flanders and bled each other white; during which time he'd have pursued other matters. None of which included a pre-emptive war against Germany.

He saw scant chance of military victory and thought Russia had little to gain from a Nazi defeat. Additionally he knew all too well that the Czar had caused his own downfall by getting himself involved in an unending continental war.

I've never understood why these war games are so insistent on having the U. S. and U. S. S. R. enter the war on their own. It's history revised to fit gameplay!

The U. S., of course, was not eager to get involved with the European conflict. If it looked like a stalemate I doubt F. D. R. would have pushed for U. S. entry; no doubt he'd have made moves toward assisting in an armistice, which is a different course of action.

-- Which is one variant I'd like to see: The war in the West drags on till mid-41, bogged down in Northern France. An armistace is agreed upon where Germany withdraws from France and the Low Countries but remains in control of Poland, Denmark and Norway. The game starts with Barbarossa. In the West it's a question of whether or not Britain and France will be drawn into the new war, and if so, when. Germany would be obliged to keep strong units along the Rhine and in Norway and this time the Low Countries would be openly Allied.

I like the scenario editor, but there's no way to create that sort of situation!

[ December 09, 2002, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[viper_ss]

This ties in a little with the Allies DOW. I think the Allies should pay to DOW, example being the Low-Countries. I posted a topic on this.

I think it is very unrealistic for the Allies to be able to DOW on Norway, Portugal, etc. This is also very helpful for them since it increases their production, gives them the MPP boost when they conquer the location, and gives them avenues to launch an assault.

I think the Allies should still have the ability to do so since it adds flexibility but should come at cost of MPPs.