Commissar Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Hi, I was wondering if anyone can tell me the difference, if any, between the Elephant and Ferdinand. My understanding is that they refer to the same tank destroyer but the Elephant lacks an MG while the Ferdinand has a bow MG (or is it the other way around?). Is this correct? Also, I have heard that there were some elements of GrossDeutschland that actually fought in the West. This is certainly news to me as I had always thought that GD was pretty much stuck on the Eastern Front after its stint in France in 1940 when it was an infantry regiment. Can anyone give me more details on this? Any particular noteworthy battles? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raketenpanzerbüchse Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commissar: [QB]Hi, I was wondering if anyone can tell me the difference, if any, between the Elephant and Ferdinand. My understanding is that they refer to the same tank destroyer but the Elephant lacks an MG while the Ferdinand has a bow MG (or is it the other way around?). Is this correct? QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Elephant had MG's and the Ferdinand did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fieldmarshall Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commissar: Hi, I was wondering if anyone can tell me the difference, if any, between the Elephant and Ferdinand. My understanding is that they refer to the same tank destroyer but the Elephant lacks an MG while the Ferdinand has a bow MG (or is it the other way around?). Is this correct? Also, I have heard that there were some elements of GrossDeutschland that actually fought in the West. This is certainly news to me as I had always thought that GD was pretty much stuck on the Eastern Front after its stint in France in 1940 when it was an infantry regiment. Can anyone give me more details on this? Any particular noteworthy battles? Thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Did you also know that only ONE Sturmtiger saw action on the Eastern front, and 9 saw action in the Rhineland on the west front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 I believe some Panthers attached to GD fought in the west, as well as some of the training units - Knight's Crosses were won by GD troops in action against the British in April 1945. My site on GD below lists the Knight's Cross winners. Also bear in mind that the Führer Grenadier and Führer Escort (Begleit) units came under the GD umbrella, and served in the west, notably the Battle of the Bulge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfshook Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 Nevermind, he beat me to it. [ 07-09-2001: Message edited by: Wolfshook ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commissar: Hi, Also, I have heard that there were some elements of GrossDeutschland that actually fought in the West. This is certainly news to me as I had always thought that GD was pretty much stuck on the Eastern Front after its stint in France in 1940 when it was an infantry regiment. Can anyone give me more details on this? Any particular noteworthy battles? Thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Both the Fuhrer Begliet & Fuhrer Grenadier Brigades participated in the Ardennes offensive. Both were attached to Manteuffels 5th Panzer Army, FBB fought at St. Vith & Hinterhausen areas. The FGB fought as 5th Panzers, screening force on its extended left flank in the Bourscheid & Heiderscheid area along the Saur river. Regards, John Waters [ 07-09-2001: Message edited by: PzKpfw 1 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Posted July 10, 2001 Author Share Posted July 10, 2001 If elements of GD had indeed fought in the West, how about some GD mods for CM? I have always had a deep interest in GD ever since I played "Panzergrenadier" by SSI back when I was like 8 or 10 years old. I can remember manuevering my GD units to battle the Russian hordes. I think I usually got my butt kicked though. A Panther can only take so many hits. I was not aware only one SturmTiger was on the Eastern Front. Yet, we still see the SturmTiger in CM2 and have no SturmTigers in CM1. I'm not complaining or anything. It's just funny. I'll feel better with my IS-2s, IS-3s, and other ISU assault guns. After all, if something like the SturmTiger will be represented in CM2, I doesn't seem really unreasonable to see the IS-3 in CM2. Fair is fair after all. NO--I'm not trying to start another IS-3 debate There are other moot, and pointless things to argue about like national modifiers and RTS format, things that BTS has clearly stated will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 10, 2001 Share Posted July 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commissar: If elements of GD had indeed fought in the West, how about some GD mods for CM? I have always had a deep interest in GD ever since I played "Panzergrenadier" by SSI back when I was like 8 or 10 years old. I can remember manuevering my GD units to battle the Russian hordes. I think I usually got my butt kicked though. A Panther can only take so many hits. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> GD wore standard uniforms, the only exception being the GD monogram which you can't really see, and the cuff title, which you can't properly simulate because it would appear on both sleeves. The truck mod on my site has the tactical sign - white helmet - of the GD Division. I will add more mods, especially for CM2, as well as having a page on German vehicle markings on the go for other modders to use as a reference. MikeT just sent me a scenario featuring the GD against Russians in 1941 for his upcoming Russian Front mod for CMBO. He is doing a bunch of scenarios using modified Polish troops to stand in for Russians - to tide us over til CM2 hits the net. I believe one battalion of Panthers fought briefly in Normandy after being moved there to refit but would have to go through my references to be totally sure; it seems unlikely now that I think about it, but am not sure why the thought occurred to me. I believe it was members of the Anti-Tank Replacement Unit that fought the British in April. I have tried to get some details on this action but haven't had any luck. It sounds like a bad one to try and do in CM - the Germans attacked a British column of tanks with Panzerfausts, and it seems to take superhuman effort to get CM troops to actually use the damn things on tanks. If I can assemble enough info on this action, it is of great interest to me, and I would certainly try and do up a convincing scenario. Perhaps someone "out there" has more info on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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