Guest J Pender Posted January 28, 2001 Share Posted January 28, 2001 Hello all, Does anyone know how many 251/10 37mm armed halftracks were stationed on the Western front during the period covered by CMBO, what was the total number produced, were they still being produced in 1944? Take care John Pender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted January 28, 2001 Share Posted January 28, 2001 No data on unit production numbers of that model in Chamberlain and Doyle's Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two, though other data and photos are given. ------------------ New to Combat Mission? Visit CM Boot Camp at Combat Missions for tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J Pender Posted January 28, 2001 Share Posted January 28, 2001 Thanks for trying Grem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted January 28, 2001 Share Posted January 28, 2001 According to http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/3515/251/index.htm#m10 it was produced up to 1943 with a number photos dated '44. No production numbers given. ------------------ When it's my turn to march up to Glory, I'm gonna have one HELL of a story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 231 Sd.Kfz. 251/10 were produced in 1943. No more after that. The total force OOB shows no more active 251/10's for 1.3.1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J Pender Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Hello M Hofbauer, Thanks for taking the time to find that info. Take care John PS were did you find your answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Originally posted by J Pender: Hello M Hofbauer, Thanks for taking the time to find that info. Take care John PS were did you find your answer? Just talking out of my ass here, but wouldn't the 37mm guns be used mainly for training by this point? I know you are talking about half track mounts, but if they dumped the 5 cm mortar and the trail mounted 37s, I would presume that the HT mounted 37 would also be dumped. It would be useless against armour, and for use against softskins or infantry the 20mm would be just as effective but with a better rate of fire. So my butt says, anyway! Are you cooking up a historical scenario that calls for their use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Just talking out of my ass here, but wouldn't the 37mm guns be used mainly for training by this point? I know you are talking about half track mounts, but if they dumped the 5 cm mortar and the trail mounted 37s, I would presume that the HT mounted 37 would also be dumped. It would be useless against armour, and for use against softskins or infantry the 20mm would be just as effective but with a better rate of fire. So my butt says, anyway! Are you cooking up a historical scenario that calls for their use? Germans were chronically short of tanks, and used anything that would shoot even if it was not much good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J Pender Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Are you cooking up a historical scenario that calls for their use? Hello Michael, If they were in the game I would try. I recently saw a picture of a 251/10 dated 1944 and it got me thinking. It didnt say were the pic was taken but my guess was on the eastern front. I just like the joy of managing tank kills with lowly halftracks/armored cars. The best time was when I managed to bag a Priest and a Sherman with a 251/9. Before CMBO I rarely played any (SL/ASL SP) battles that took place after 1943. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illo Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 I've seen multiple East front pictures of Sd.Kfz 251/10. In many pictures it is seen in supporting infantry advance to villages. Most pictures were from 1941-1943 no doubt. But there was one where 251/10 was standing with some Panthers and text underneath said something about 251/10s attached to protect new Panthers from enemy infantry. So that pic may be from operation Zitadelle, right? I dunno if it was used in west 1944...no idea at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Chamberlain and Doyle's Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two says of the 250/10: "From 1940, the Sd Kfz 251/10 was issued as the Zugführerwagen [platoon leader vehicle] to platoon leaders, so as to provide some heavy support. Minor variations existed in the arrangement of the 3.7cm PaK shield." (p.175) ------------------ New to Combat Mission? Visit CM Boot Camp at Combat Missions for tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J Pender Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 More info: First SdKfz 251 version to mount a support weapon, 37mm PAK L/50, velocity 875 m/sec, 168 carried rounds, six man crew. Take care John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illo Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 168 rounds!! this would be awesome Greyhound and Hellcat killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Just use an Ostwind: 37mm gun and more ammo ------------------ New to Combat Mission? Visit CM Boot Camp at Combat Missions for tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Originally posted by Slapdragon: Germans were chronically short of tanks, and used anything that would shoot even if it was not much good. A lot of the early 75mm short Stug IIIs were around in training units, without being used at the front until maybe again in 1945 towards the end, when the training grounds became the front-line. Something had to be kept back to train new personnel, and with the Stugs it was the old stuff, shortages at the front don't impact on that. A lot of the shortage in 1944 was created not by an absence of weapons, but by an inability to transport them. Production figures were comparatively high in 1944. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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