Knaust Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 I know that this is a long debated topic, but I think that we need an official answer from BTS. I refer to the strange (to say the least) way the AI manages troops under fire in open field. Well I noticed that this oddness is a bit improved in v1.12: in many occasions I had a unit in open field under fire from enemy units in woods at some 100mts, and this unit ran to cover towards the firing enemy! Now is this a realistic behaviour? I think that the AI must be improved: let us forget for a moment the strategy to run for cover minimizing the enemy firepower from known enemy units, let troops under fire run to the nearest cover, but at least EXCEPT when running directly towards enemy firing units! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunoReactor Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 At least the AI is ready for CM IV: the PTO. At least for the Japanese side. Or for malaria stricken Yanks with fever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Fred Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 Originally posted by Knaust: I know that this is a long debated topic, but I think that we need an official answer from BTS. I refer to the strange (to say the least) way the AI manages troops under fire in open field. Well I noticed that this oddness is a bit improved in v1.12: in many occasions I had a unit in open field under fire from enemy units in woods at some 100mts, and this unit ran to cover towards the firing enemy! Now is this a realistic behaviour? This drives me crazy also, but it is my understanding that units will move to the nearest cover. If that cover happens to be where the fire is coming from, well, then that's where they go. This is really a problem for crew served weapon teams. I have never seen a HMG or a mortar crew survive in this situation. To be fair however, crew served weapons are not supposed to be put in situations where they are subjected to direct fire when the closest available cover is held by the enemy. As for infantry squads, I would suggest to you that moving from an exposed position to the enemy position is, in fact, realistic. While serving in the US Army infantry, we were instructed to "assault the ambush". This seems crazy to me, but according to our training doctrine, based on lots of combat experience, your chances of survival, and more importantly the chances of survival for your squad/platoon, are much higher if you move toward, and attack, the enemy position. If you run away from the position, it is almost impossible to attempt suppressive fires on the enemy position and you are handing the initiative to the enemy which has profound psychological and tactical impacts on both sides. If you go to ground with no cover, you provide the enemy with a stationary target in the open and you're pretty much done right there. If you assault the ambush, you may be able to suppress the enemy position and you retain some degree of initiative. Not much perhaps, but at least you're not being 100% reactive and you're giving the enemy something to think about. I think that the AI must be improved: let us forget for a moment the strategy to run for cover minimizing the enemy firepower from known enemy units, let troops under fire run to the nearest cover, but at least EXCEPT when running directly towards enemy firing units! As for AI improvement, I'd rather see BTS work on CM2. If I'm stupid enough to get my HMG crew killed because I moved these 4 guys with 400 lbs of gear out in the middle of an open field under enemy fire, well, I'd get what I deserve generally. If my infantry units have to charge from an exposed position in the open at an enemy position, to get to cover, well it's my opinion and experience that's pretty realistic. [This message has been edited by Sgt Fred (edited 02-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knaust Posted February 15, 2001 Author Share Posted February 15, 2001 well..I never moved HMG's towards enemy inf in woods...I always use HMG's as covering support....what I am speaking about is infantry units moving towards enemy in woods in open field! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Fred Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 Originally posted by Knaust: well..I never moved HMG's towards enemy inf in woods...I always use HMG's as covering support....what I am speaking about is infantry units moving towards enemy in woods in open field! I should have made myself more clear. I have from time to time moved HMGs and mortars across open areas that I did not know were in an enemy field of fire until they were engaged. It is my experience that these units do not fare well. Unfortunately I do not know where all the enemy units are all the time. I generally try and scout potential support weapon positions with infantry squads, but for a verity of reasons that doesn't always work out. As for infantry squads that come under fire and then proceed to move toward the enemy position instead of running away to more suitable cover in the rear, I've stated that I think that's pretty realistic. ------------------ Later, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalton Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 Originally posted by Knaust: I refer to the strange (to say the least) way the AI manages troops under fire in open field....in many occasions I had a unit in open field under fire from enemy units in woods at some 100mts, and this unit ran to cover towards the firing enemy! I've had very few problems with the AI running towards/away from the enemy. When assaulting a position (thier move orders end at the enemy location) the squads execute that order until their morale drops low enough for them to break. Once broken they react variably - sometimes they hit the ground & cower, other times they turn around and run finally on the odd location they figure the cover near the enemy is a better place to be than out in the open. I see all of these options as quite reasonable considering 6-10 of your buddies just got hit and you are facing a lot of firepower yourself! What I've also seen is platoons that have assaulted a position with heavy losses, but made it to the objective (and some cover); only to call it quits and run back across the open ground & be cut down from behind after tossing a couple of grenades back & forth. This I find frustrating, but also believable. Knaust, your post seems to imply that you had a squad become broken and then run 100m toward the enemy unit that caused them to break. Is my understanding correct? That would be unusual, doubly so because I have trouble thinking of maps where infantry have 100m of unbroken terrain to run across, without some nearby cover. ...Dalton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted February 16, 2001 Share Posted February 16, 2001 Maybe this is what my halftrack was doing that I posted about earlier today. Weird though that the halftrack would wander straight out into a barrage to seek shelter, not to mention that its real route to safety was to its rear, not forward through and into the heart of a barrage. It acted though, very similar to the infantry described herein. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knaust Posted February 16, 2001 Author Share Posted February 16, 2001 yes Dalton....I'm playing some scenarios with sparse trees. The attacking tactics is 2 squads (#1 and #2) attacking and one(#3) in reserve:#1stop in cover and #2 advancing, then #2 stop in cover and #1 advancing, and so on. Many times a scouting half-squad under heavy fire runs for cover towards the enemy in woods, only because that woods is the nearest cover. Anyway I think that we need from BTS some hints about the retreating stategy, implemented by the AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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