Bog/Immobilization & Movement???

[Dr. Brian]

I can't seem to find it, but I recall reading about how Bog/Immobilization has nothing to do with the speed a unit is travelling. You can be driving through mud at either FAST or MOVE, and the speed in which you are travelling has no effect (increases or decreases) the chance to Bog/Immobilize. It's all based on the conditions (i.e., mud, snow, etc.)

Is this a valid statement?

Thanks in advance!

[Kingfish]

I've found tanks tend to bog / immobolize when doing a fast move thru scattered trees. Perhaps it's just my bad luck, but I've had it happen often enough to avoid it.

Also, I've had horrible luck with Fireflies reversing down small hills or rises. Three games I've had them throw a track in dry ground conditions. Of course they only lose the track the moment they are completely behind the hill and out of LOS, making them useless. :mad:

[Moon]

I'm not 100% sure but I think you're confusing the fact that AFTER you bogged, giving a fast or normal move command does not change your chances to unbog (nothing is, in fact - you unbog "automatically", or not). I am quite certain that the speed of your movement does affect the chance to become bogged or immobilized, though.

[xerxes]

Does "slope" effect bogginess?

- xerxes

[Dr. Brian]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moon:

I'm not 100% sure but I think you're confusing the fact that AFTER you bogged,........<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just to clarify them….

1) Does unit's speed (MOVE or FAST) effect the chance to Bog differently? For example, travelling through Mud, the chance to Bog is greater if moving Fast than just Move.

2) Does unit speed (Move or Fast) effect the chance to "unbog?"

I'm really interested in number 1) above, and included 2) just to avoid any confusion. Thanks in advance!

[ 08-22-2001: Message edited by: Dr. Brian ]

[engy]

1. Chance to bog...

...is affected by the following:

i. Vehicle ground pressure

ii. Speed

iii. Terrain

iv. Wetness of the terrain

v. Distance traveled in "bogging" terrain

...is not affected by the following:

i. Driver experience

...may be affected by the following--it seems to be, but I haven't tested it:

i. Slope

2. Chance to unbog...

...according to the official BTS response in several bogging threads, is a purely random event in which the movement order of the tank has no effect. Any apparent correlation between movement order and success is purely coincidental.

Both these issues were covered in previous threads, but I can't find them (even though I remember posting in them, so it's even more strange ) , so you'll have to take my word for it.

engy

Edited to include Bogging Factor v., "Distance traveled..."

[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: engy ]

[Dr. Brian]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by engy:

1. Chance to bog...

...is affected by the following:

i. Vehicle ground pressure

ii. Speed

iii. Terrain

iv. Wetness of the terrain

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

engy,

Thanks for the response, and clearing things up from those missing threads.

Now, are each of the 4 listed above equally weighted, or is the order you listed in degree of magnitude.

Thanks again for clearing things!

[engy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian:

Now, are each of the 4 listed above equally weighted, or is the order you listed in degree of magnitude.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's pretty funny that you should ask that. Last night after I posted I edited the post to include the disclaimer, "Listed in the order they came to mind, without any relative importance intended", but then I ended up not submitting the edit. It's strange how these things work out.

But, back on topic...the factors do carry some weighting, but I can't exactly quantify for you. For example:

1. MOVE FAST + Muddy + clear terrain + Medium ground pressure = Certain Bog

2. MOVE + Muddy + clear terrain + Medium ground pressure = Very Likely Bog.

3. MOVE FAST + Dry + clear terrain + Medium ground pressure = No Bog.

So, the above show that Wetness is more important than Speed, since...

1 & 2: The difference is only MOVE vs. MOVE FAST, yet the chance of bogging is only reduced slightly, from "Certain" to "Very Likely" (sorry for the terribly unspecific "Very likely", but I haven't run enough tests to give you stats)

1 & 3: The difference is Muddy vs. Dry, and the chance of bogging goes from "Certain" down to "None".

Ugh, it's clear in my head, but it's somewhat confusing now that I've put it down on paper. I'd love to run tests and compile the results, but I just don't have the time right now.

*Important*: I just edited my first post to include one more factor. The chance to bog occurs all along the movement path, so the distance traveled in bogging terrain also has an effect. The further you travel in dangerous terrain, the more likely you are to bog. (Compare traveling 20m off a road to bypass another vehicle with traveling 200m across a field to reach a crest.)

I hope this helped, instead of muddying the water even further. Fire a question/comment back at me if I've made a mess of this.

[Dr. Brian]

I seem to be following the logic. It'd be nice to have quantification somewhere on this (I'm sure someone had to do it in the past). It would be easier to understand, as well as to use the units more effectively, if the basic percentage was given with the modifiers for each type of terrain/condition. I wish the Game Manual were adequate in this regard.

I actually inferred the "distance traveled" but last night, I actually wondered about it.

In a PBEM with mud, my truck just nipped a piece of open ground while travelling a paved road (due to a bad plot). It bogged and immobilized right there. Could not have been more than 5m of mud.

Anyway, I concur that the longer a unit travels in bog-able terrain, the greater the chance to bog.

[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: Dr. Brian ]

[Dr. Brian]

btt just in case someone can add to the discussion this weekend.