dog6880 Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 Ok i posted one saying allied tanks suck. i think it is just that german tanks are too god like. what i did was i made a map where i had 15 german tanks and a dozen allied aircraft. 1)an interesting thing i noticed is when given the option allied aircraft will always target tanks in the open as opposed to in scattered trees. of the 15 tanks i put 6 in scattered trees and they were never targeted after 20 turns. 2)only direct hits from the smaller bombs will kill a tiger, and very close hits from those big ones will do the job. 3) those guns the aircraft use only serve to button up the tank and scratch paint the same proved true with the panter G & A and the king tiger what bothered me was i didnt get much in the way of damage to the tank with really close shots near the treds. i have the screen shots to back it all up. i belive the treds would have been utterly destroyed with some of the hits i took on those tanks i dont know how to add screen shots to my post tell me how and i will show you one that ticked me off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 You need to test more! Trust me, near misses with bombs will often immobolize vehicles. Air power is one area in which I would hazard to guess I have tested more than anyone else on the planet with Combat Mission... Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 You need to be a bit more scientific with your tests, since your results and mine do not agree. While air power is not all it is cracked up to be, it is more powerful than your tests show, and it can target tanks anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 Yes, test on! I suggest you try the scenario "South to Sword" and play German. You have a bunch of PzIV but Allied have.... Near miss or near hit from CAS bombs usually damage tracks so immobilize a tank or if you are lucky, kill the TC. Most US CAS here represent P-47 which "only" have 8x .5 cal mg -- they are pretty lethal to most medium tanks or below. But if you face P-38 (iirc, it is not modelled here) or worse Typhoon, 20mm cannon can kill most tanks here in CMBO. From my limited experiences, CAS target any tank (including friendlies) in open, in trees and moving. Keep going with CM! "I like that enthueasium, Colonel." -- Wing Commander III - Heart of Tiger ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tero Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 >............CAS target any tank (including friendlies) in open, in trees and moving. I played a QB once with manually bought forces for both to test a German force with no tanks against an armoured American force with heavy CAS. AI took care of the Amis while I played as Germans. To my astonishment the CAS concentrated on the only armour on the map, ie the friendlies. Every single pass was made against the friendlies, the Germans did not suffer any casualties from CAS while the Amis lost a critical amount of armour. The tanks did manage to take out my concealed 88 (which was not nice). I must say the CM is rather spot on when it comes to the relative worth of CAS. Sometimes it is deadly, sometimes it will not hit the tank in the open no matter what you do. You can not rely on it to save your ass if you botch up. What I miss the most when it comes to CAS are the hits on empty locations mistakenly identified as tanks. At least I have not seen any. When they strike they always strike on target. Lets face it, during and right after the war the Western Allied CAS was hyped up to be THE factor in the moder battle field but in reality it had more often produced a handsome wizard prang but yielded meager results in terms of actual kills. They did claim huge amounts of kills but they were overstated. They were effective but their effect lied in their psychological effect. They curtailed troop movements during the day. They attrited the German forces effectively before they engaged the Allies in combat but they seldom broke the back of a defensive position or a German counter attack. I forget the name of the place but at least on one occasion they failed to spot and neutralize a defensive position that decimated a British armoured attack eventhough the number of sorties in support of that attack was considerable. [This message has been edited by tero (edited 01-09-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 Yeah, Allied airpower played a heavy role in the success over Europe, mainly in interdiction roles I believe (not going into strategic) to harass/slow/destroy units enroute to the frontlines. Remember, though they were sure to have Forward Air Controllers coordinating air efforts, communications isn't as spiffy as it is today. Add to the fact that you're flying fast at low altitude it'll get difficult to identify armor types/nationalities especially with AA fire going after you. This is my personal belief in support: If deciding to spend my support points I'd rather do it on heavy artillery and have a degree of control. CAS, though powerful is too sketchy at times, esp. if the fighting is REAL close. Don't complain if your Sherman platoon gets hammered by your own CAS since they're trigger happy by 1944 on to get some kill credits. Us Wehrmacht players don't have to worry about friendly fire from aircraft from 1944 on... the Luftwaffe flies invisible aircraft. Speaking of inflated kills try a more modern example. I hate saying it(being in US military) but those figures NATO officials gave out for the bombing of Serbian forces for Kosovo was hyper-inflated. Proof? Take a look at the "withdrawing" Serb troops in those trucks we supposedly destroyed. Did those guys have the look of distress or fatigue of relentless bombing? They even looked pretty clean and in high spirits. ------------------ "Uncommon valor was a common virtue"-Adm.Chester Nimitz of the Marines on Iwo Jima [This message has been edited by Warmaker (edited 01-09-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 Well, I am not sure if this has been covered before, I think CAS (both sides) takes AFV as their pirority target, then troops on feet. I am playing a ASL-converted scenario with Scott Orr where my FJ keep getting pounded by his CAS and I have not AFV at that point. Airpower in CMBO, I think in WW2 in general, is not magic bullet ( or artillery to be exact ) It worked pretty well in interdicting troops movements and supply transportations. In CAS role, planes like IL-2, Typhoon, Hs-129, P-47 are early forerunners in CAS department. Ground troops and AFVs do not have IFF ( it would be interesting if they do ) so it is very common for cases of friendly fires, afaik, it still happens during the Gulf War. OTOH, it would be unfair to disregard the role of CAS in CMBO -- many more than once, they are the life-saver if they do their jobs right. It also limits your tactical options in case you realize the other side owns the sky. In short, as I quote from many others said, air power here in CMBO is a "double-edged sword". Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 I've found air support to be rather dodgey. I've payed up front in QB's for a little aid-from-above, only to have the fly-boys pull a no-show! Rather annoying, as I lost that QB and those 300 odd points could have been put to better use on the ground. OTOH, in a canned scenario (that shall remain nameless), I had waxed my opponents ground forces to the point I was unapposedly moving a MKIV, a platoon of Inf., and an AC onto his side of a bridge --- just as the infantry crossed over, 2 yellow dots dropped out of the sky... Cross off 1 tank, 1 AC, several small houses, and most of the infantry platoon. 500lb bombs hurt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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