Gremlin Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 The manual says on p. 49 that no unit is allowed to traverse a cliff. Gebirgsäjer can't climb cliffs? Sure, the going might be slow, but that's the sort of thing they were trained for. (Yes, I did a search and couldn't find anything explaining this omission.) Btw, if you want to learn more about the Gebirgsjäger, look for James Lucas' Alpine Elite: German Mountain Troops of World War II. ------------------ New to Combat Mission? Visit CM Boot Camp at Combat Missions for tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted February 4, 2001 Author Share Posted February 4, 2001 Come to think of it, you'd think they'd also be able to traverse slopes more rapidly than other troops. ------------------ New to Combat Mission? Visit CM Boot Camp at Combat Missions for tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 Also, airborne units can not parachute onto the battlefield, what the hell BTS? ~Tiger~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted February 4, 2001 Author Share Posted February 4, 2001 Actually, that would be both fun and realistic. It would also be tactically important since paratroopers were particularly exposed to fire while in the air and when they first landed. Anyway, while I take your sarcasm, you seriously have to wonder about the inclusion of specialty units like mountain troops but the exclusion of special abilities that it seems reasonable they should have. ------------------ New to Combat Mission? Visit CM Boot Camp at Combat Missions for tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Napoleon1944 Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 Seems doable. Rangers and commandos would be nice too. Too bad BTS focused on the Germans. ------------------ The only enemy I fear is nature. -Napoleon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 Gremlin has a point, Tiger, no need to mock for it. Paras are not modeled simply because it would be too difficult to do so in the game engine. Climbing mountains/slopes is NOT difficult to model, and is perfectly in scale, and 'should' be somewhat realistic. It would be somewhat cool to have a "Risk factor" involved. The less experienced the Gebirgsäjer, the more chance of one or two taking a nice big fall Were there more Gebirgsajer on the East front? If so, this should make it in. Just a suggestion. Cheers! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted February 4, 2001 Author Share Posted February 4, 2001 Yes, there were more than in the period/places covered by CM. They fought in the Uman pocket, the Caucasus, Finland, etc. during most, if not all, of the years of the wars on the Eastern Front. I'd have to do some research first to get more specific numbers. ------------------ New to Combat Mission? Visit CM Boot Camp at Combat Missions for tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted February 4, 2001 Author Share Posted February 4, 2001 Here's an interesting site on the Gebirgsjäger: http://www.gebirgsjaeger.4mg.com/ ------------------ New to Combat Mission? Visit CM Boot Camp at Combat Missions for tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 for my two cents on this: mountain troops, the ability to climb mountains in the time frame allow is too much. In most cases mountain climbing is more strategic/operational than tactical. You won't climb a cliff face in battle, ok the assualt by the Ranges in D-Day calls me a liar, but that was the rarity. Given the nature of CM and that it is the first in a series I can fogive this omission. However, Paras; I do wish they had factored having random placement for paras at mission start. Say each unit could have its drop zone plotted on the map and then the program would factor a random displacment in direction and distance when reinforcement arrives. Also would like to see fatigue level be randomized as well, simulating loosing some troops in the drop or having units be disorganized from the drop. Now an AA unit nearby would have an afffect on this. About Rangers, I am working up a ranger battle for my DFDR mod and decided to simpy use Engineers as rangers and monkey up their experience level for the command units and troops. The engineers get some special abilties that better trained troops such as rangers should also have. MikeT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 Paras; I do wish they had factored having random placement for paras at mission start. Say each unit could have its drop zone plotted on the map and then the program would factor a random displacment in direction and distance when reinforcement arrives. Yes this would have been nice to have in the game. I could see though where it might pose problems for the game engnie though. Too bad their working on CM2 now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 MikeT, I dont think when Gremlin asked for the ability to scale mountains, he meant Mt. Everest! Most cliffs/hills/steep slopes in CM are, at most, some 50 metres high. For an experienced climber, that's nothing. Now, if someone was firing at you while you were climbing, thats a whole nother story! I believe its completely in scale, since to climb a regular high in CM, which is anywhere between 10-20 metres high, would take no more then 5-10 minutes for Regulars, and even quicker for experienced climbers. True, it would take a while, but if it ment catching a snoozing enemy by surprise, its well worth it! Cheers! EDIT: Gosh darned spelling mistakes! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" [This message has been edited by The Commissar (edited 02-04-2001).] [This message has been edited by The Commissar (edited 02-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted February 4, 2001 Author Share Posted February 4, 2001 Yes, that's exactly the sort of thing I meant. I could imagine troops clambering up one of CM's mini-cliffs and surprising a bunker crew or FO. For me, the most important thing about design decisions in CM (and its successors) is the inclusion of the most possible units with the highest detail possible. The more abilities, strengths, and weaknesses among the highest number of units provides the most tactical complexity and interest, imo. ------------------ New to Combat Mission? Visit CM Boot Camp at Combat Missions for tips. [This message has been edited by Gremlin (edited 02-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 MikeT wrote: > Paras; I do wish they had factored having random placement for paras at mission start. Say each unit could have its drop zone plotted on the map and then the program would factor a random displacment in direction and distance when reinforcement arrives. Also would like to see fatigue level be randomized as well, simulating loosing some troops in the drop or having units be disorganized from the drop. Now an AA unit nearby would have an afffect on this. Only in exceptional circumstances will paras drop into a combat zone. CM rightly simulates paras having dropped previously, organised, and gone into battle basically as infantry. The scale of a CM map is too small for a drop zone anyway – the whole map might be the target, but then you'd have troops all over the place. Likewise, reinforcements aren't exactly going to parachute down on the enemy's heads. As always, if you want to model special circumstances, do it in the map editor. There is a good example of this bundled with the game. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 Somehow i think the climbing gear would be a bit heavy to carry around in battle just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 Looking at the link Gremlin provided, it doesnt seem there was much gear to carry. excluding things like Skis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 Mountain Troops in NW Europe did not carry mountain climbing equipment with them, and should be given no special abilities in the scope of CM. The point has been made that cliffs were not scaled in combat zones with a few exceptions (Pointe du Hoc) that called for special equipment. They also wouldn't use special climbing equipment just to go up a steep hill, especially in a company that is in contact with the enemy. You may as well just paint a "shoot me" sign on their backs. I'm not sure why anyone would suppose Mountain Troops would be able to climb steep slopes any better than anyone else. Wearing an edelweiss does not all of a sudden impart on you the ability to climb steep grades any better than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted February 5, 2001 Author Share Posted February 5, 2001 If you've ever seen a skilled mountaineer or even hiker "at work," they can certainly move more quickly and skillfully over tough and steep terrain than your average person--and presumably average soldier. Obviously, trying to scale a height on the battlefield would expose troops to fire, but there are tradeoffs for everything ------------------ New to Combat Mission? Visit CM Boot Camp at Combat Missions for tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts