Matt the Paladin Posted February 20, 2001 Share Posted February 20, 2001 Is there any relation between the Molotov cocktail and the Soviet guy Molotov? Just wondering. ------------------ "War is like a cat, it is easy to let out of the bag, but hard as hell to put back in!" -Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanks a Lot Posted February 20, 2001 Share Posted February 20, 2001 After extensive research (about 5 minutes),I found that the Molotov cocktail WAS named after Soviet Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Molotov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted February 20, 2001 Share Posted February 20, 2001 If memory serves me correctly, it was Molotov who was the general in charge of te defense of Stalingrad during the Great Patriotic War, and it was his knack for finding new and inventive ways of holding the German dogs at bay (including the Molotov Cocktail) which caused the weapon to get his name. Incidentally, after all he did as a true hero of the motherland, in the fifties he was "exterminated" due to a fear of his gaining to much power. Really sad.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted February 20, 2001 Share Posted February 20, 2001 Flasks filled with petrol or other burning material were used against tanks at least as early as the Spanish Civil War, possibly earlier. The name Molotov Coctail dates from the Winter War between Finland and Soviet Union. Exactly who coined the term is not known, but allegedly it was born as a reference to one Molotov's radio speach where he claimed that Soviet bombers didn't drop bombs to Finnish towns but bread. In Finland Molotov was generally seen as one of the chief architects and the "driving force" of the war. My grandfather's company's war diary contains another reference to Molotov: (on 12.3.40): Molotov didn't pay his pilots to fly today. (It snowed the whole day and the Red Air Force had to cancel its missions). Yet one similar usage is in one Finnish soldier song, "Ryssälauma" (lit. "A Russkie Horde"). As can be guessed from its name, the lyrics are highly politically incorrect today so they can't be found in any reputable collection of war-time songs and I don't know when the lyrics were made, or even what they were originally. (However, some unreputable collections have them but they don't usually carry any atributions). The line in question is: Hapankaaliakin ompi vatsa siellä vailla, Molotov ei ehdi antaa sapuskaa. Translation: "There is no sauerkraut for their stomachs since Molotov doesn't have time give out any food." (Two of the five verses of the song are real masterpieces (other three are quite boring), but unfortunately I can't translate them to English because they are so context-dependent. Those Finns interested in reading them can find them with a quick google search). - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanks a Lot Posted February 20, 2001 Share Posted February 20, 2001 Molotov was not a General and he died in 1986. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted February 20, 2001 Share Posted February 20, 2001 Panzer Leader: If memory serves me correctly, it was Molotov who was the general in charge of te defense of Stalingrad during the Great Patriotic War, Nope, that was Chuikov. As Tanks a Lot mentioned, Molotov was the Foreign Minister. Incidentally, after all he did as a true hero of the motherland, in the fifties he was "exterminated" due to a fear of his gaining to much power. While Molotov was not exterminated, his fall of power is quite instructive. After Stalin's death, his cronies were purged from the high positions. IIRC, only Berija was shot and the rest survived but were severely demoted. In particular, Molotov was sent to Outer-Mongolia as an ambassador. Molotov lived surprisingly long, I think (but am not sure that) he died in mid-80s. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted February 20, 2001 Share Posted February 20, 2001 Yes, Chuikov. I always get that Cabal of Russians mixed up. It has been a while since I read "Barbarossa" and they begin to blend together. Sorry about the totally inaccurate account! Off topic, Chuikov was a pretty heroic guy right? And, didn't he end up getting wasted by the KGB? ------------------ And King Xerxes looked to King Leonidas and spoke. "Our Archers will rain arrows down upon you to blot out the sun." And King Leonidas replied: "Then we will fight in the shade." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Originally posted by Panzer Leader: Off topic, Chuikov was a pretty heroic guy right? And, didn't he end up getting wasted by the KGB? Sure you're not thinking of Zhukov (the more common spelling)? There was a General Chukov, but I don't know much about him. Anyway, Zhukov was first eased out of power by Stalin and then kicked upstairs by Khrushchev. He apparently died peacefully in 1974 at the age of 80. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Michael emrys wrote: Sure you're not thinking of Zhukov (the more common spelling)? Translittering Russian names is always an adventure... Vasili Chuikov (or Tshuikov as its common Finnish translitteration is) was the general who commanded the defenders in Stalingrad proper and later led an army during the attack to Berlin. Chuikov was one of the best generals of the Red Army, though he too had his black moments. During the Winter War he was sent in to replace the commander of Soviet forces attacking to Suomussalmi and Kuhmo and he failed there pretty severely. (He couldn't save the 44th or 54th divisions). Though, to be honest, he had a very large albatross tied to his neck: his political comissar was Lev Mehlis, highest ranking political officer in the whole army and one of strongest candidates for the title of the worst military commander of the war (or, perhaps even of all history). I don't know what happened to Chuikov in the end. He belonged to Hrutsev's inner circle (as can be read from his books) and was probably replaced when Breshnev came to power. Zhukov, on the other hand, was one of the marshalls of the RKKA. Chuikov either didn't have a very good opinion on Zhukov or he followed the official party line in his books, since he presents sharp critisism of some Zhukov's actions. (In particular, of Zhukov's wasteful methods of achieving breakthroughs). - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 If you managed to survive the Stalin era, you had a good shot at dying naturally. Khrushchev and his successors were not interested in murder, except in extreme cases such as Beria's. For example, when the Politburo decided to replace Khrushchev with Brezhnev, it probably would have been simpler all around to have murdered Khrushchev and called it a natural death. The fact that they removed him relatively gently is fairly telling, IMO. Of course, the Soviet leadership remained perfectly willing to murder non-Russians and throw their weight around in other places, but that's another story. Anyway, as far as the original question, VM Molotov died in 1986. IIRC he was the last Soviet leader who'd actually lived through the Revolution to die. ------------------ Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirOscar Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Just read "Enemy at the Gates" GREAT book, some one here posted about the upcoming movie and I had to go buy the book. Anyway Chuikov, Gen Vassili Placed in charge of the Sixty-Second Army Sept 11 1942. Main job was to hold Stalingrad at all cost. After Stalingrad the Sixty-Second Army was renamed the Eighth Guards and Chuikov lead them in glorious victory in Berlin in May of 45. Later became commander of all Russian forces in postwar period. In 1969 he flew to Washington to represent Russia at Eisenhowers funeral. Reported to spend most of his retirement years in a Dacha outside Moscow. This guy was something else if you consider he survived the political postwar battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 > Off topic, Chuikov was a pretty heroic guy > right? And, didn't he end up getting > wasted by the KGB? ROFLMAO Surely enough! After all, they all were. These russians breed like rabbids, that's the only reason they can afford 30 million wasted by KGB, plus another 50 million in WWII, and still survive as a nation. PS These Cold War propaganda stereotypes never cease to amuse me, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrew Hedges Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 As a lot of people have pointed out, Chuikov was the general in the city of Stalingrad. Zhukov was involved in planning and carrying out the encirclement of Stalingrad, and later the battle for Berlin. Beria was the KGB officer who placed tanks around Moscow during the power struggle (such as it was) following Stalin's death. Incidentally, Chuikov is the model for Chewbacca in the Star Wars movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Andrew Hedges wrote: Incidentally, Chuikov is the model for Chewbacca in the Star War movies. Chuikov at Stalingrad. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Molotov was foreign minister, I believe, at the time of the Winter War with Finland. The Molotov cocktail was invented by the Finns to destroy Russian tanks. They named it, and the idea seems to be that this is the sort of drink he was invited to partake of on his "visit" to Finland. It is an insult, in other words, of the "here is one for your nose" variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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