Stinking Field guns - how to kill them

[foamy]

There was a time when I never worried about my opponents having field guns, a couple of turns with artillery or mortars and they were gone.

Not so anymore, in the last few games of CMBO I am getting torn to pieces with field guns, and have wasted all my artillery on them to no effect.

How can this be ??

One opponent has a gun behind a stone wall and no amount of artillery or direct shots from my Churchill can even scratch him.

Anyone with good ideas or thoughts on how to remove these vermin from the battle field ??

[Dandelion]

Actually I am rather of the opinion that you were - a few support rounds and they're off. If they are a real pain and your artillery is too weak to nail them, put a smoke shell on them during your critical advances. You can force them to keep their heads down using area fire too, having machineguns spraying their general direction. Not ultra effective, but in my humble opinion usually enough to be able to advance.

Mortar shells work primarily by shrapnel, so the gun would have to be in the open or among trees (treeburst) for them to have great effect. Or actually able to directly observe their fire with according accuracy. If they are dug down anyplace but in a forest, you'll have a problem using mortars. I can see that a dug in gun behind a wall would be problematic.

If the enemy is regular or inferior, I've used half-teams to knock them out. One can normally have two or three of those crawl up to adequate distance and angle and place a few rounds in a gunner or two. That will usually persuade the crews to reevaluate their situation and bugger off. I've tried that on quality crews too, like veteran paras, but it didn't work at all. Crews just ignored their dead mates, traversed their guns and blew my people away.

You'll have to have some time to spare of course, as infiltration takes time.

There's usually the problem of extricating the patrols. No problem against the AI. But human foes tend to get agitated about such raids and hunt them down, murdering them to the last man and writing letters explaining their deep satisfaction with this outcome.

Of course, the odd foe will actually group his field guns mutually supportive and with close protection teams and other such authentic stuff. I've run into this. Never managed to infiltrate. Unless you actually advance all over him, artillery, smoke and area fire are the only answers I ever knew to such a situation.

I have had opponents using very fast vehicles against my guns. They come as close as they can in cover, then run back and forth, zigzaging forward, so the gunners can't traverse the gun fast enough to hit them. I always felt this is gamey. Of course, I douldnt swear no daredevil M8 crew never did this.

Regards

Dandelion

[Dandelion]

...in the above answer I presumed you were advancing, as an attacking foe will rarely choose field guns.

D

[lcm1947]

Well I've got the opposite problem. I always play the American's and the German tanks take out my guns faster then anything. Even when hid which they normally are they still don't last as long as you'd think. I suppose the shell's that the German's used were more effective then what American's used but it's gotten to the point where I seldom ever buy field pieces anymore.

[Dandelion]

Actually Lee, I am having much the same experience, with any nationality. I have really tried to copy the manner in which the Germans used their infantry guns - and they did, very actively. But it just won't work.

No matter how I group them for defense, they are unable to make a difference. Mutual support, close protection, interlocking fields of flanking fire, frontal cover and reverse slope - the works. Sure, they get one or two shots fired, but then comes enemy support and they are history. No realistic way of moving them, and even if you do, the time required to set up anew means you won't be able to use them for quite a while.

So I also usually buy a spotter rather than the gun if I can.

Regards

Dandelion

[moneymaxx]

It seems I'm the only one who really loves field guns . One of my favorites is the 75mm infantry gun. It's very cheap, that means that my opponent, if he can't bring in a tank to take it out, has to spend a lot of arty on them. If I'm lucky it costs him more in arty points than the 33 points I spend.

Another tactic, which I'm currently working on, consists in moving the gun before the arty arrives (not onmap mortars of course). This seems to be the best way to save them, but until now I had little success. Still working on it .

By the way, I think that the 75mm inf. gun is even more effective in attack scenarios, if one can find a save route for the transport. E.g. moving it, out of LOS of the opponent, with a Kübelwagen up to a wood tile, unloading it there and then moving it to the other side of the wood to get LOS to the objective.

Did this in a recent game against LCM1947 with 2 PAK 40 75mm ATG, but there aren't any enemy tanks in the game anymore .

[Dandelion]

Sounds interesting, and also reflecting actual use of these pieces. I know the Germans brought them along at every occaasion, so obviously you are doing something right and we are doing something wrong, as the Germans would have quickly discarded the guns had they not been helpful.

The 75mm is nicer than most others not least as it is rather difficult to spot and identify. The smaller the better. I have great respect for 57mm guns because I never find them before they find me.

I try to move the pieces too. Arty keeps destroying my prime movers tho. And like I mentioned there is the setup time even if I do get them moved. You know of any tricks here that might help?

Regards

Dandelion

[moneymaxx]

Originally posted by Dandelion:

I try to move the pieces too. Arty keeps destroying my prime movers tho. And like I mentioned there is the setup time even if I do get them moved. You know of any tricks here that might help?

As I said, my prime movers get destroyed too, most of the times , IF my opponent decides to attack that little gun. That's where I see the real advantage, buying e.g. 3 75mm inf guns in an 1500 points ME is a serious problem for the opponent. I spend 99 points + 25 for a Kübelwagen and he has to take those out with arty costing less then 125 points, assuming that my guns don't do any damage. And the opponent doesn't know if I have other guns for which he should save arty .

Also I find moving 75mm inf. quite easy, because you can do that with a very fast Kübelwagen, the 75mm inf. has a setup time of only one minute and can HIDE if not spotted during transport.

The 57mm is very powerful too, since British forces receive tungsten rounds quite early in the war. The problem with allied guns is, that they are, except the 57mm ATG, very expensive, so that the above mentioned tactic doesn't work. The British airborne forces have a 75mm Pack Howitzer which is quite cheap, but then you don't get armor, unless you mix force branches that some people consider gamey.

All bigger guns, IMHO, are only effective if hidden at the beginning of the battle. I will allways trade a Pak 40 for an enemy tank. If my opponent wants to take revenge and destroys the guns, so what? If he doesn't destroy it, I move and hide it again .

[nevermind]

Good posts moneymaxx!

*quietly observing and learning*

[Dandelion]

Interesting,

Must admit to not having thought of matters in terms of points like this. Well, firepower points, but not purchase cost.

I guess I play too many scenarios and too few QBs

I'll try these things out right away, and see if I cannot also become successful at this. Many thanks.

Regards

Dandelion

[lcm1947]

Yeah Moneymaxx you are gamey. And excuuuuse me for not having any more tanks for you to blow up. How inconsiderate of me. Seriously though I just don't have any luck with field pieces so only use them if I have to. I never really thought of how much arty it takes to knock one of these pieces out. I will have to think about this. Good point.

[Big Ron]

I've been using field guns quite a lot. The important thing about htem is discipline. You can only leave them stationary and firing for about 90 seconds before you have to move them to avoid the arty barrage that almost always follows. Also don't put them at the front edge of the woods you're using as cover but keep them back as deep as you can while retaining line of sight. Hiding is then effective and you can wait for nice easy targets

[lcm1947]

Ron, I do keep mine as far back in woods as possible but still lose them too soon. I wonder if it's just the American's guns that perform so poorly? Maybe the German's were just better at concealing them?