Fuerte Posted April 19, 2001 Share Posted April 19, 2001 I mean, there are so many graphics patches out there, no-one knows what to download, because they can be uncompatible with other graphics etc. Isn't it time for MDMP-3? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted April 19, 2001 Share Posted April 19, 2001 Um, I think a large part of the MDMP team is probably kinda busy right now, developing CM2. So my guess is no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted April 20, 2001 Share Posted April 20, 2001 The next MDMP will feature some T-34s I'd imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted April 20, 2001 Share Posted April 20, 2001 I think that the amount of available patches is the reason NOT to make a MDMP3. In the past there was pretty much nothing to chose from, so putting the best mods into a single file was simple. Now there are so many mods that are the "best" for each unit, depending on personal preference, so any new compilation would probably contain 90% second-or-less best mods for any specific user. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuerte Posted April 20, 2001 Author Share Posted April 20, 2001 Exactly, there are so many graphics patches that an ordinary guy like me can't possibly decide what to download and install. Maybe someone should try to build a list of the best mods. Otherwise all that hard work is wasted. I guess that there are people who download and try them all, but that is just too tedious for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Posted April 20, 2001 Share Posted April 20, 2001 You can check out the Computer Games Online article on the best of CM mods. That should help ease the confusion. Perhaps it's time to create a database of the various mods out there, what they do, and where to find them. In fact, I was thinking of doing this in order to practice some database programming and design. Most likely any further Mad Dog packs will be after CM2. It should be interesting to see what the mod community does with CM2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesper Posted April 20, 2001 Share Posted April 20, 2001 Why not a Mad Manx Mod Pack with all the best mods from his site? Keep up the good work Manx! I love your site! /TokeOrm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Sniper Posted April 21, 2001 Share Posted April 21, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commissar: You can check out the Computer Games Online article on the best of CM mods. That should help ease the confusion. Perhaps it's time to create a database of the various mods out there, what they do, and where to find them. In fact, I was thinking of doing this in order to practice some database programming and design. Most likely any further Mad Dog packs will be after CM2. It should be interesting to see what the mod community does with CM2<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Its been done http://www.combat-missions.net/ Look in the workshop. SS Peiper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuerte Posted April 21, 2001 Author Share Posted April 21, 2001 If you mean the mod list: http://www.combat-missions.net/workshop/modlist.htm It's ok, but it does not have a direct download link, and it does not tell which one of the 30 grass or 16 Tiger or 9 Sherman mods is the one to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx_CM Posted April 21, 2001 Share Posted April 21, 2001 Although it would be easier to do that, i have no intentions of EVER linking directly to another sites files. It ain't the done thing. Also, any preference or advice i gave on that list would purely be MY taste, which is probably completely different to yours. Anyway, virtually all of the mods that are available have preview screenshots to give you some idea of it's quality and whether it's worth downloading or not. [ 04-20-2001: Message edited by: Manx_CM ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuerte Posted April 21, 2001 Author Share Posted April 21, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Manx_CM: Although it would be easier to do that, i have no intentions of EVER linking directly to another sites files. It ain't the done thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Perhaps you could download all those files to YOUR site and link to them instead? And, it would be great to have a mark in those files that you PERSONALLY use. I'm sure that I would be happy with all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoot Posted April 21, 2001 Share Posted April 21, 2001 Fuerte, Well, you'll almost certainly never see that happen. Providing links directly to downloadable files is rude because that site's webmaster wants you to come in through the 'front door' and experience his/her site fully . By the same logic, downloading everybody else's content and tossing it up all over your own site is akin to pillaging (it would take a whole lota' HD space too!). Although these issues have been discussed before (recently), I couldn't locate the thread. I'd suggest a search but I think 'search' is still nonfunctional. But, since the other webmasters I've dealt with tend to be in agreement, any hopes for a 'Mega-mod pack' or 'Mega-scenario pack' can probably be put to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuerte Posted April 21, 2001 Author Share Posted April 21, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clubfoot: But, since the other webmasters I've dealt with tend to be in agreement, any hopes for a 'Mega-mod pack' or 'Mega-scenario pack' can probably be put to bed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This can't be true... Aren't all those mods in the public domain? You can do anything you like with them, collect them in cd and even sell them if you like. It's sad if you think this way. At least there should be a list of the best mods available. It would be a benefit for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted April 21, 2001 Share Posted April 21, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fuerte: This can't be true... Aren't all those mods in the public domain? You can do anything you like with them, collect them in cd and even sell them if you like. It's sad if you think this way. At least there should be a list of the best mods available. It would be a benefit for everyone.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm not quite sure about that. Whenever I have an Angelfire account with mods on the main page, it gets taken down for "violating the terms of service." Apparently somebody at Angelfire thinks they're copywrighted or something. That's why you have to go through another index page to get to the terrain mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted April 21, 2001 Share Posted April 21, 2001 No that is NOT true Fuerte. It is extremely bad form to post direct downlaod links to someones site and it's a real easy way to piss me off. I don't spend hours working on my website so someone else can come in and just steal my links. I don't want to get on the subject of copyrights again (it has been gone over many times in the past) but basically NO ONE has my permission to post direct links to the mods hosted on CMHQ and I think you will find that most of the other webmasters that run sites will be in agreement with that policy as it pertains to their own pages. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuerte Posted April 21, 2001 Author Share Posted April 21, 2001 That is bad news indeed... I thought that the mods were meant for the benefit of all people, not to make any profit or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Posted April 21, 2001 Share Posted April 21, 2001 Profit has nothing to do with it. Just because something is posted on the net DOES NOT make it public domain. A person's work is his work and therefore he has control on how that work is distributed, packaged, used, etc. It's basic copyright law. Imagine going through the trouble of creating a killer web page or CM mod only for some schmuck to come along and steal it and claim (or even imply) it as his own. Not nice is it? The argument that you're not making profit or that the true maker "benefits" from your preemptive distribution does not fly law wise. Don't even think of arguing that before a judge. It's been tried before and it doesn't work. People may disagree with this but they don't have to like it. That's the way it is. There is no definitive mod that dominates all other mods. People like different things and have different styles. Go over to Madmatt's site and go through the mod sections. There are plenty of mods, sample images, and descriptions of what the mods are. Madmatt's recommendations are usually on the ball in my opinion so if there something there he likes, I would advise you to download and try it out. You just have to try it and decide for yourself. However, I would personally advise you to get both Mad Dog Packs as THE basis for your modding adventure. Add other mods from there. Marco Bergman and Fernando also make mods that are just incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted April 21, 2001 Share Posted April 21, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fuerte: That is bad news indeed... I thought that the mods were meant for the benefit of all people, not to make any profit or something.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> They are, and I have never made a penny from any mod (much to the disbelief of some) but thats not the point at all. Its an investment of time, pride in ones work and various agreements with the Mod artists themselves that are at play here more than any desire to make a quick buck. Someone sends me a mod and they will know that I will check it out, make recommendations for improvements and basically bust my freaking ass to make sure it is the best that it can be. Ask any of the mod authors and I would hope that they would tell you that I go out of my way to present their work in a professional and co-opertaive manner. Now, if some loser with a website comes along and just links right into my FTP server how is that benifiting ANYONE other than himself? He didn't make or foster any sort of mod community. He didn't work hours after hours to help any mod artists gain acceptance for their work. He didn't provide a substantial outlay of funds to build a server and provide ample bandwidth so the mods could be found and hosted. Basically he didnt do a damn thing other than sponge off of someones else hard work and that is wrong in my book. I am not all that concerned about copyrights to be honest. Technically anything that is posted on CMHQ becomes my property as the owner of the site and server (and the submitters are aware of this but I also don't really care what they do with their stuff unless their is some sort of distribution agreement ahead of time) but what I do care about is doing what is right and grabbing someone elses links is NOT right. Madmatt [ 04-21-2001: Message edited by: Madmatt ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuerte Posted April 21, 2001 Author Share Posted April 21, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt: Technically anything that is posted on CMHQ becomes my property as the owner of the site and server (and the submitters are aware of this)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Huh, this IS scary. I had no idea that this has gone so far. I thought that we are all doing this for fun, for benefit for us all, not for profit, or not for property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted April 21, 2001 Share Posted April 21, 2001 Fuerte, how many times are you going to miss the point? No one is making money here, its all about what Copyright laws really mean. This exact same discussion crops up every so often and some people always get up on the fence and yell "Fault" at those of us that run websites and try to paint us (or rather, usually ME) as a tyrant bent on control and it's not that at all. BUT, for those of us that run successfull websites, and CMHQ is the most successfull CM wesite in existance, sometimes you have to take a more business like attitude to running the operation. That tends to ruffle some feathers, oh well... If you don't like that, than fine, don't visit my site. I won't lose any sleep over it as I will still get over 3000 hits a day just fine. I have the oldest and biggest CM dedicated site on the internet and have relationships (and good ones) with many many mod artist and article authors. You can ask them yourself if they have a problem with the way I run my website and other than I may be a little tardy now and again with updates I think they would report no issues with the serice that I provide. Now, to get back on the original point, you can NOT just assemble collections of mods and make them available without the express permission of the mod authors and hosting sites administrators. Welcome to the real world, but thats how these things work. Does that mean that such a collection would never be done? Not at all, but their are rules and etiquete that needs to be followed. The mods are free to download and use in the game as you see fit, but making a profit from them by making some sort of CD collection is against the law. Also remember that Big Time Software and Battlefront.com are the real owners of this stuff as it requires Combat Mission to work and is all based on that original code. You can't even use the Combat Mission name in a product without their permission and any for profit add-on product would have to have their express permission. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuerte Posted April 21, 2001 Author Share Posted April 21, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt: If you don't like that, than fine, don't visit my site. I won't lose any sleep over it as I will still get over 3000 hits a day just fine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is just childish... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Now, to get back on the original point, you can NOT just assemble collections of mods and make them available without the express permission of the mod authors and hosting sites administrators. Welcome to the real world, but thats how these things work.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't think so. I have read no copyright statements anywhere. Anyone can make a collection of those mods, that's how I think anyway. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The mods are free to download and use in the game as you see fit, but making a profit from them by making some sort of CD collection is against the law. Also remember that Big Time Software and Battlefront.com are the real owners of this stuff as it requires Combat Mission to work and is all based on that original code. You can't even use the Combat Mission name in a product without their permission and any for profit add-on product would have to have their express permission.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> But to make a cd collection of mods WITHOUT profit, there's no law against that. Also I don't know what law prohibits selling those cds. I see no copyright statements anywhere... But this has gone a bit far from the original idea, having a list of the best mods out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoot Posted April 21, 2001 Share Posted April 21, 2001 Fuerte, My main point was not one of legality, but courtesy. Those of us who work hard on these mods and websites often stipulate that there availability be limited to a certain site. This is to promote the perusal of the hard work of our friends and colleagues. Manx recieves exclusive mods from certain artists that are offered ONLY at his site by the mod's creators request. The purpose? Manx has a great site and was very cool to many people in the early days of mods. So those individuals want to not only promote their mods, but Manx's site as well. The same goes for Madmatt, Old Dog, Dragoon (and his predecessor Kump) and many other webmasters. The compilation of everyone's work in one place would kill these sites. There would be no real need to visit them. And yea verily that would suck a goat's ass. I'll now be real honest about the "good of the community". First, it lies in it's expansion, not it's paring down at the hands of all-inclusive super sights. Second, deep in our heart of hearts, artists and scenario creators have hungry egos which must be fed. And that's really why me make this stuff. Having all the mods or scenarios in the known universe available in one file would prevent the need for the individual download, use of, and comments on our mods and scenarios. Since we're fragile creatures, this would bruise our egos and result in a stemming of the tide of quality mods and scenarios. From that point on, your typical mega-pack would consist of pocket lint, dust mites, and vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted April 21, 2001 Share Posted April 21, 2001 I'm in 100% agreement with Madmatt here. I go to a lot of work to post mods on my website, sometimes working for an hour or two just to get one terrain mod hosted. (Gunnergoz, I'm looking in your direction here ) I do this because it's a benefit to both the CM community and mod and scenario makers, not because I'm making any money off of it. Like Madmatt, I haven't made a penny off of anyone's mods or scenarios and don't plan to. While I appreciate people posting links to my website, by just linking to the zip file of the mod is taking advantage of my hard work, because nobody will even see my website, which I am kind of proud of. [ 04-21-2001: Message edited by: 109 Gustav ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuerte Posted April 21, 2001 Author Share Posted April 21, 2001 Hehehe... that was a good post, Clubfoot! Madmatt is taking this too seriously I understand what you say about "courtesy" and "hungry egos". I vanish from this thread now. But the list of the best mods... it does not hurt anyone, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx_CM Posted April 21, 2001 Share Posted April 21, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fuerte: But the list of the best mods... it does not hurt anyone, does it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There is a list! ....just choose what YOU think is best for YOU!. Fuerte - Exactly the same sort of thing was recently discussed on the Scenario Talk forum under the thread "Scenario Archive". Often you won't see copyright notices, but that doesn't mean that a websites content or the files it provides aern't copyrighted, either by the site owners or the individual file owners. In fact, if i understand correctly, you don't have to display copyright - copyright is assumed anyway. There is an unwritten rule that we don't leech files off each other and don't link directly. The CM Community isn't short of choice when it comes to websites and people making add-ons for the game. Things ain't so bad!!!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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