Stefan Wennerberg Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Hello Folks, Ok, here's the deal. I'm trying to come up with an efficient way of creating megahuge quick battles (where I/we attack, the computer AI defends; no meeting engagements) where I (or with a couple of friends, all of us on the same side) can play against the computer AI.. Two things that distress me about the current quick battle: 1) The armies are too small: I want the really BIG battles where armies are worth THOUSANDS OF POINTS. 2) The computer placement of ground troops is pretty bad (e.g., their spread too thin and command control is terrible). On item 1 above, I know that the game is meant to be played at a smaller level but .... you see I'm a gamer/addict and my ultimate dream is to play out WW II man-to-man with 20 second turns. So I recommend that we skip the discussions that CM really handles company level (or smaller) conflict. Your just preaching to the choir. Assoc. w/ item 1 above, I can create larger battles with the scenario generator by "prepurchasing units" via the scenario I/face. Of course, I lose some of the "surprise" because I know more about what the computer forces are composed of than I actually should. One advantage of the huge battles are that given the sheer vol. of units combined with my poor memory (particularly if I don't look at the scenario for a few days) this doesn't seem to be that big of a problem. The real show stopper seems to be item 2 above - poor placement of the defending troops. The only things I can come up with are: 1) Padlocking (or set up all of the defensive poistions of the units myself). 2) Create vars. Zones to "force" the computer AI to place units more sensibly. 3) Use Reinforcements to add uncertainty Padlocking leaves a bad taste in my mouth since I'm concerned that I'll remember the exact location of those mine fields, snipers, schrecks, etc. I've been using zones to make the area the computer AI place troops in more concentrated. I've also used zones to create a harassment/minefield zone in the front, a main defensive zone in the "center" and a zone for units that guard the flanks. Thus, each time I play the scenario, I allow the computer to "randomly" place the defensive units across the appropriate areas of the map. I set up my own units and indulge in a CM extravaganza event! At least that's the theory. Thoughts/Comments/Suggestions? Surly some of you are as mad/insane as I am and have considered similar grandiose ideas. Thanks, Stefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Your thoughts are sensible! I'd employ your 3rd suggestion as well, reinforcements. Don't put too many troops in each slot, but spread them between different slots. Then give each slot a fairly low chance of arriving (20% or less), starting pretty early in the game. Place the reinforcement flags at different (plausible) locations on the map. That way you won't know exactly where and when the enemy will be reinforced. Cheers Olle ------------------ Strategy is the art of avoiding a fair fight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Smith Posted February 5, 2001 Share Posted February 5, 2001 I'm with you (although I like large maps, and the maneuver potential, more than large armies). I have asked several times on this board why there is an arbitrary size limit to the maps creatable by the game (2x2.5km for battles, 3x5 km for operations) and have yet to receive a real answer. The lock on map size can't have any programming significance-just change the 'maximum map size' code from 2.5 km to unlimited, and let us overload our computers if we want to! But, for some reason, such an obvious change hasn't taken place in either a mod or a patch. steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 The reason for the limits is that truly large maps will bog the current generation of computers, unless you have a 64mb card, and will bog the average player, who would need an objective AI to handle subunits, not currently present. That said -- you can just boutique out a game to a referee with your points requirements, and he or she can create the game for the two people wanting to play. It is even not that hard if they just click for random terrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Smith Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Slapdragon- I understand that really huge maps will bog the average player's computer, and that really huge armies will bog the average player's interest. But so what? Why not let us determine what mapsize will bog our own computers, and design or play scenarios below that mapsize? Maybe my computer will handle 5x5 km, maybe my Peng's will handle 8x6, maybe someone else's will handle 2x2.5. What's wrong with changing the maximum mapsize in the editor and letting me find out for myself? Also, just out of curiosity, do you know what kinds of map sizes were created that resulted in a bog-before the 2x2.5 limit was coded in? And what were the max sizes played around with during design/development? steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aka PanzerLeader Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 I would sure love to play Regimental level engagements in 10x10kms maps! I know I'm crazy, but there's just so much more to it...More complexity, more challenge, longer game, thus better immersion, etc. If only all the micromanagement in the game could be reduced...And if only it was possible!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Originally posted by Stephen Smith: I'm with you (although I like large maps, and the maneuver potential, more than large armies). I have asked several times on this board why there is an arbitrary size limit to the maps creatable by the game (2x2.5km for battles, 3x5 km for operations) and have yet to receive a real answer. The lock on map size can't have any programming significance-just change the 'maximum map size' code from 2.5 km to unlimited, and let us overload our computers if we want to! But, for some reason, such an obvious change hasn't taken place in either a mod or a patch. steve Steven, Hear Hear !! I also posted concerns regarding QB and not enough map space for the indirect approach. Another forum member suggested one could set up say a 3000pt QB to get the map size and then only purchase 1000pts of units. I am in the middle of trying this. He also suggested that I could use the option where the AI gets a reduction in the number of units it can have. So in a 3000pt game you can set the AI at -67% and it will only select 1000pts in a 3000pt game. Then if I only pick 1000pts it should be an even point value of 1000pts on a 3000pt map. I have started experimenting with this but time constraints have put it on hold. If you wish to try this please let me know your outcome. (One bother with this system is that the computer wants you to have a balanced force, so you have to spread out your units over armor, infantry, vehicles and support). I will share with you what I find out if you wish. Generous Toad ------------------ "Too much of a good thing... is wonderful." -- Mae West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 I do not know why BTS placed its current limits at the level they did, having never needed even as big as it can go it was not really a concern. There may be a "tray" limit were only so many slots for units can be handled by the system -- a limit which affects Steel Panthers and Close Combat. Quake placed a room size limit on design your own arenas for a PR reason that may also be valid (namely you take more heat for a restricted feature than leaving the feature off). I do know these limits have increased since the Beta test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patboivin Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 Months ago I started building an Operation Market Garden scenario, but found that the map size was too small so I dropped it. In big historical battles there is the question of logistics and time, people in real life don't plan and move every minute like we do in the game. People might hide in a building for days, for example, to avoid capture, or to wait until enemy units leave the area. Very hard to model in a tactical game like CM, I don't think it is really possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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