Spotting and targeting etc.

[Horncastle]

Im am curious to how spotting targeting and firing are modelled in CM. Theres quite a few questions here but Im getting confused when I start thinking about them so need clarification!

When a yellow target line appears does that unit 100% know it is being fired on, or can another unit see that the said unit is being fired on and this is the cause of the yellow line.

If it does know, does it mean the unit has a definte fix on the location or knows just the general location that the fire is coming from.

Now once it targets something is it just fire in the general direction or has it pin pointed it and is just lay down the area with fire. For instance inf in a wood 500m away, it would be impossible to be able to target men I assume so that they see the smoke muzzel flash and tracer(?) coming from that direction and just fire back.

Is the reason why firepower goes up when you get closer reflected by the ability to bring more weapons to the target e.g SMGs or the fact that once closer units have a much better idea where to shoot and this increases the lethality.

[jasoncawley@ameritech.net]

It is easier to answer the firepower questions, in CM terms.

On the sighting questions, CM does not keep track of unit-pairs for sighting (as though every unit you have, has a seperate list of sighted or not for every other unit). Instead, when a unit is sighted, other units on your side will "pick them up" if they have LOS, but with a delay (like delays movement commands, but not displayed). When you see a targeting line it means those guys are shooting at these guys, but where you are in the delay-reaction cycle is not indicated. After "pick up", it may also take some time to rotate to that target, if the unit decides to target it that is (or if you tell it too - you can help them a little by rotating them toward the targets you want them to engage, preferably before hand).

For the shooting, the rise in firepower with range is both weapons and accuracy related, and also frequency of the shots at closer ranges. At 500 yards, the only effective weapons are the squad LMGs (BAR, Bren, MG 42 LMG). From their down to 250 yards, the rifles kick in. From there down to 100 yards the SMGs kick in. The first of those "range windows" is marginal for those weapon types. At 30 yards grenades will be added as well, and at 10 yards hand to hand combat.

The firepower reflects the aimed shots from the shooting irons. What are they shooting at? They have generally seen a man or two out of the enemy unit. The more exposed the target is, the more men they will see and for longer periods of time.

LMGs are firing short bursts of 10 rounds or so at the general area where men were last seen, or can be seen. The rifles are firing aimed shots, sometimes just at the general area more often at one or two exposed men. (In close, the Americans used "clip fire" sometimes, every man in a squad firing off 5 rounds semi-auto at once, to throw out ~50 bullets in an arc. Only really effective in close). The SMGs are also firing short bursts, longer ones at close range but with more pauses to reload.

If you look at the unit detail for a CM infantry squad (select it and then hit "enter" on your keyboard) it lists all the weapons the squad has and their rated firepower at 40, 100, 250, and 500 yards (1000 yards too for HMGs).

You will see about 2/3rds of the firepower at range is the squad automatic weapon / LMG. MG firepower does fall off with range, especially as you get to max effective range. But much more slowly than the smaller arms. And HMGs retain decent firepower out to ranges at which the smaller weapons aren't going to do anything.

The rifles typically give 1 fp each at 500 yards, 3 at 250 yards, 5 at 100 yards, and 6 at 40 yards. The M-1s are somewhat better than the other types, in close - that is an effect of semi-auto as opposed to bolt action.

The SMGs will give up to 36 fp at 40 yards, or as much as 6 rifles. Out at 100 yards they are more effective than rifles but not by nearly as much, like twice. At 250 yards they aren't putting out anything. They basically reach parity with a rifle at about 150 yards. The German MP44 is a bit better at medium range, like a rifle, but tops out at 250 yards. Quality also effects firepower, away from these standard figures.

When you target somebody, you see the actual firepower the squad is putting out at that range. You also see another figure, "% exposed", which is a measure of overall cover for that unit. Concealment, cover (the latter stops HE too, concealment only helps against aimed small-arms and MG fire), night, fog, smoke, intervening trees in the way, etc, will all result in a lower "% exposed" number. But by far the largest impact is just the sort of terrain the unit is immediately in.

Stone buildings and foxholes in the woods, or distant shots at night, you will see numbers like 15%. You are only putting onto the target, the exposed % times the firepower %, really. Most forms of concealment - woods, rough, pines, light buildings, rubble - can give exposed numbers like 25-30%. At the edge of LOS in scattered trees or brush you can also see numbers that could, but they will rise to 35-50% moving and near the edge of those things. Still a big cut in incoming from compared to open ground. A foxhole in the open will also give ~50% numbers, not very good (unlike one in trees). You won't get 100% in open ground, either, but you can get 70-90 depended on how close, moving, etc. Moving across pavement in the cities, close - there you will see perfect 100% exposure.

You can think of all the above this way. It takes only about 1/3rd as much firepower to pin somebody down in the open as in woods. It takes nearly double the woods figure to pin down guys in stone buildings or foxholes in woods.

Rifle armed infantry and some squad types with 2 LMGs, will find it reasonably easy to pin down enemy infantry in the open at 250 yards, provided they can shoot at them repeatedly and keep the "good" results, and increase suppression gradually.

At guys in the woods? You might shoot at them at 500 yards, but you aren't going to do anything to them. You will just waste ammo. An HMG is about the only bullet weapon they will notice, that far away and with decent concealment. (It is firing whole 100-round belts at them after adjusting an elevating screw to get the right general range. A guy with binoculars is telling the gunner which way to nudge).

Infantry in cover generally only takes appreciable casualties and morale failure from the fire of several infantry enemies at around 100 yards. MGs and rifles (like the Americans) might have enemies "taking cover" and getting "cautious" farther out. But they are not in any serious danger at ~200 yards, unless they are in the open (then they are, of being pinned anyway). Infantry combat is deadliest under 30 yards, which does happen in tight terrain, buildings, etc. The two sides can stumble on each other still in "good order" in such places.

Often, with longer lines of sight, lower quality troops will break sometime between the approach past 100 yards, and that "close combat" (grenade range - 30 yards) point. The closest range firing is thus lopsided more often than you might think; one side has been suppressed so much they can't defend themselves effectively anymore, and anyone that sticks his head up to shoot back draws fire from everybody on the enemy side. Some run away, a few surrender, the rest get shot.

I hope this gives you a sense of what to expect. The troops are more resilent than you might imagine and a lot of that long range fire is noise and blind fire. They hurt each other when they are closer - before then, they may make noise and try to scare each other, but they aren't going to hurt anybody in cover much.

[Horncastle]

Cheers mate very informative