Kremlin Walls Battle & map posted to Scenario Depot.

[The Graeme]

A quick note. You can now download from the Scenario Depot my battle (or just the map if you prefer) of my Kremlin Walls scenario, which replicates the internal layout of the Kremlin complex.

Details in my posting in the CMBB Forum. Cheers!

[General Bolt]

I started this scenario but didn't finish. I have a great screen capture of a German tanker dancing inside the Kremlin walls.

Dancing like the cowboys did in the old westerns. A KV-1 machine is kicking up the snow while the Greman does the "Get the Heck Out of Dodge Jig". I'll post it from home.

[Zitadelle]

Originally posted by The Graeme:

A quick note. You can now download from the Scenario Depot my battle (or just the map if you prefer) of my Kremlin Walls scenario, which replicates the internal layout of the Kremlin complex.

Details in my posting in the CMBB Forum. Cheers!

I downloaded the Kremlin Walls map to take a look at your depicition of the citadelle- especially since I had visited the Kremlin in late February of this year.

Internally, you have placed the buildings in the correct position; however, there are a few differences that should be brought to your attention.

First, you have St. Basil's Cathedral on the wrong end of the Red Square, and don't forget about the gate buildings at the end opposite St. Basil's (these were the gate buildings that the tanks head through enroute to the parade.

Second, the Kremlin is not square- it is more trapezoidal. That will be difficult to model in CMBB so a square is probably acceptable.

Third, the land that the Kremlin is built is not flat- remember it was originally a medieval-era fortress. Thus, it is actually on a hill and some of the slopes are rather steep. Here are some sloping directions (unfortunately I did not take elevation studies while I was there, but I do have photos).

On the Red Square side the land is flat, but it slopes up to and down from Red Square.

The greatest slope is noted on the Moskva River side. The fortress is dramatically above the river level, and for that matter the wall is actually at a lower level up the slope than the buildings built on the plateau.

Also, there is a gentle slope following along the Trinity Gate side. BTW, Trinity Gate is accessed by a bridge from a tower building. In CMBB, the bridge would probably rate as a light bridge.

On the Trinity Gate side, is a large park area stretching about 80-100 meters wide. The closest other buildings on that side are not that close to the side of the Kremlin (as you have modeled). The same is true for the opposite side of the Kremlin wall as well.

If you are looking for other details let me know, and I can either jog my memory, look at photos, or find some other maps....

[The Graeme]

Zitadelle, thanks for the info.

St Basil the wrong side of the square? The map I was using showed only the layout within the Kremlin. Obviously my memory of St Basils location from documentary footage glimpsed long ago is wrong. Should be simple enough to correct. Not sure of the correct procedure for putting an updated scenario into Scenario. Must ask the Admiral.

I was vaguely aware of the true shape of Red Square, but opted for simplicity.

Was also aware Kremlin not flat, but didn't know in what way. Thanks for the details. May try to work it into the scenario at some point.

Didn't know about the Trinity Gate bridge. Not quite sure how to change without a ravine effect.

I was also vaguely aware buildings not that close to the sides of the Kremlin, but I wanted a way for the German attackers to get close to the walls without being forced to move across the open space of the square.

Thanks again! Great to get feedback.

[Zitadelle]

Here are some additional details.

The park off the Trinity Gate side is called the Alexander Garden (Alexandrovsky Sod), and in the upper corner adjacent to the Red Square enterance is ironically the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier for the Great Patriotic War.

The building on the opposite side from St. Basil's Cathedral is called the Historical Museum. You will remember the twin tower and gates (leading into both sides of the Red Square) as the enterance points for the military parades (as I indicated in the prior post).

Also, you show a walled open courtyard in the middle of the Kremlin (between the buildings and the cathedrals). That section is actually a paved open courtyard.

Behind Lenin's Tomb is a cemetary/park area (about 20 meters wide ) that is for other heroes of the Soviet Union. It is a scattered treed area.

Also, if you really want to get detailed, there are two bridges across the Moskva River near the Kremlin- one off the Alexander Gardens and another leading off the opposite end of Red Square and the Kremlin. (I can give you the street names if needed.)

The Moskva is about 60-80 meters wide at the Kremlin as well.

And, don't forget the GUM large department store (now a mall) across Red Square from Lenin's Tomb. That is a single large building and was the central department store from the late 1800s through the current day.

[The Graeme]

Thank you for these new details! I will try to incorporate as many as possible over the next week or two, time permitting.

And yes, I would love to add some street names.

Question. The tower gates at either end of Red Square and their relationship to St Basil's and the Historical museum. Are the gates on the Kremlin side of these buildings or the Gum side?

In other words, if looking at St. Basil's from Lenin's tomb, would the tower gates be to the right of St Basil's or to the left? And turning around to look at the Historical Museum from Lenin's tomb, would the tower gates be to the right of the museum, or the left?

I'm guessing the answers would be: to the left (South) of St. Basil's and to the right (South) of the Museum. Am I correct?

Thanks again for these details. It's only a game, sure enough, but it's most satisfying to be as accurate as possible. Cheers!

[Zitadelle]

Originally posted by The Graeme:

Thank you for these new details! I will try to incorporate as many as possible over the next week or two, time permitting.

And yes, I would love to add some street names.

Question. The tower gates at either end of Red Square and their relationship to St Basil's and the Historical museum. Are the gates on the Kremlin side of these buildings or the Gum side?

In other words, if looking at St. Basil's from Lenin's tomb, would the tower gates be to the right of St Basil's or to the left? And turning around to look at the Historical Museum from Lenin's tomb, would the tower gates be to the right of the museum, or the left?

I'm guessing the answers would be: to the left (South) of St. Basil's and to the right (South) of the Museum. Am I correct?

Thanks again for these details. It's only a game, sure enough, but it's most satisfying to be as accurate as possible. Cheers!

The tower gates are a part of the history museum located on the opposite side of Red Square from St. Basils. There was a tower gate on both sides of the museum entering into Red Square- actually only one remains as a gate now- on the side closest to the GUM. These gates are very open, since vehicles did pass through the entrance.

The St. Basils side of Red Square is open and slopes down from the plateau of Red Square. No gates exist on that end of Red Square (just the open area and roads). Incidently, the courtyard of St. Basils also flows down the slope (to the rear of the cathedral).

[The Graeme]

Ah, thanks for clearing up a misunderstanding on my part. Two gates, one on either side of the museum. Ok, got it.

Have begun to correct the map. One frustrating problem though, can't raise wall (factory) in one area and not in another, because if the segments are connected the game treats it as a single unit. Also closepacked buildings, some right up against the wall, makes it difficult to put in slopes, unless I make the map & building spacing bigger. So, if I can't figure it out, I may opt to leave things flat.

Incidently, is there a name for the large park-like garden (?) area within the Kremlin towards the St. Basil Cathedral side? I originally thought that was the Alexandrovsky. Mind you, nowadays I wouldn't be surprised if they turned it into a car park. I understand that's what they did with their space museum... Cheers!