109 Gustav Posted January 13, 2001 Share Posted January 13, 2001 In the newest version of CM, the speed of wheeled vehicles moving over open ground has been greatly reduced, to the point where light tanks and halftracks are now the faster than the traditional CM recon vehicles such as scout cars and jeeps. I tested out the speeds of CM's recon vehicles over dry open ground on a 1000m long map, moving each vehicle the entire length of the map. Here are the times and speeds for each one. All units were regular. The first number is the time it took to travel 1000m. The second number is the speed in meters/second. German: Lynx..... 2:45, 6.1 m/s Psw 234/1 3:38, 4.6 Psw 234/3 3:40, 4.5 Spw 250/1 3:41, 4.5 Spw 251/1 3:59, 4.2 Sd Kfz 7. 4.12, 4.0 Kubelwagn 5:24, 3.1 Allied: -American/French M18 Hellcat.. 1:55, 8.7 m/s T-8 Recon.... 2:08, 7.8 M3 halftrak.. 2:25, 6.9 M3A1 halftrak 2:28, 6.8 M24 Chaffee.. 2:29, 6.7 M8 Greyhound. 2:30, 6.7 M20 ut. car.. 2:32, 6.6 M5 Stuart.... 2:34, 6.5 Jeep......... 3:01, 5.5 M3A1 Sct. car 3:32, 4.7 Allied -British/Canadian/Polish Carrier...... 2:23, 7.0 M5 Stuart.... 2:34, 6.5 M5 Halftrack. 2:40, 6.3 Daimler AC... 2:41, 6.2 Jeep......... 3:01, 5.5 Humber....... 3:33, 4.7 White Sct car 3:35, 4.7 Looks like the T-8 recon is the new "uber jeep" for open ground. Because it has tracks, it is a good 16% faster than the fastest Allied wheeled vehicle, the Greyhound, and 40% faster than the jeep. As for the British, it looks like those carriers are going to be the replacement for the jeep. The Germans really get shorted in recon. The Lynx is fast, but it's about the only choice. Even their fastest armored car, the Psw 234/1, is slower than the slowest Allied recon vehicle. Note that the humble Sd Kfz is actually faster than kubelwagens over open ground. To me, the most surprising finding of this test was that scout cars can't scout. They are the slowest of the Allied recon units, although their 160 round ammo load helps make up for their lack of speed. Although the M18 Hellcat, M24 Chaffee, and M5 Stuart are not exactly recon vehicles, I included them to give a speed comparison. Looks like the M18 might be an effictive scout, though. They don't cost too much, and unlike most recon units, they can shoot back at enemy tanks. ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. -Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted January 13, 2001 Share Posted January 13, 2001 Thanks for doing that Gustav. I had that on my list of things to check out. You saved me some work there. Treeburst155 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted January 13, 2001 Author Share Posted January 13, 2001 No problem. I noticed that scout cars were painfully slow over open ground, and I figured I should study this. (bump) ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. -Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted January 13, 2001 Share Posted January 13, 2001 Wheels are for roads. Tracks are for terrain. The revised settings seem much more realistic to me. As for "can't scout", the idea that fast off road movement is the most important thing in scouting strikes me as off based, probably a result of an excessively tactical focus. What one wants is the ability to go a few miles down the road, see what is around, and get out of Dodge in a hurry whenever necessary. Plus a low profile. U.S. recon battalions usually had Stuarts in them or attached to them, in part because of their better off-road abilities but also for their fully topped armor. Halftracks are also good off-road scouting vehicles, much better than wheeled ones. The speeds in your table, incidentally, work out to around 15 mph for the faster off-road vehicles, and more like 10 mph for the slower ones. That is probably about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted January 13, 2001 Author Share Posted January 13, 2001 I agree that the revised speeds are about right. Thinking about it, while driving my dad's truck over open ground to get firewood, I was going about 15mph. Much faster, and I would eventually have cracked an axle on an unseen log or something. It just seems a bit odd to see jeeps eating halftrack's dust. M3A1 tracks may be another good scout vehicle now, because they have 2 mgs, and their price was reduced. ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. -Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted January 13, 2001 Share Posted January 13, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jasoncawley@ameritech.net: As for "can't scout", the idea that fast off road movement is the most important thing in scouting strikes me as off based, probably a result of an excessively tactical focus. What one wants is the ability to go a few miles down the road, see what is around, and get out of Dodge in a hurry whenever necessary. Plus a low profile.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Stealth (of a sort) is nice. In reading the tech specs of recon vehicles, I have been struck by how often it is mentioned that they had extra noise suppression (exhaust muffling). This would enable them to get in closer before the enemy could get a sound spot on them. Communications are important too. A recon vehicle that can't report what it sees in a timely fashion is not going to be very useful. Michael [This message has been edited by Michael emrys (edited 01-13-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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