Jasper Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 I was just reading that the Russians would expect to shell prepared German positions for 10 - 15 minutes to knock out AT guns etc, before attacking. Now I guess much of that must be mortars. I'd expect the Americans to use at least as much artillery as the Russians, and if anything the Americans would use more. So what would that be in CM? 3 - 81mm mortars FO's just in prep fire, with a couple more for support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priest Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Funny ask anyone I play and they will say I use way to many ------------------ Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb -Priest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Remember, a lot of arty us is outside the scale of CM (but inside the scale of the CMMC coming up!) as it falls before the start of the first turn in CM. In a way, if you're attacking defended positions you can assume the barrage has already taken place. For some operations guns would fire for hours before an attack, even 'just' a battalion attack. PeterNZ ------------------ "What do I care, I got laid last week" - Chupacabra "Bjorn again are really quite good!" - Germanboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 For every 10 points in a QB, I usually get about 1.5 points of arty. How does this compare to your arty levels? ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. The Last Defense- Mods, Scenarios, and more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted February 21, 2001 Author Share Posted February 21, 2001 Originally posted by PeterNZer: In a way, if you're attacking defended positions you can assume the barrage has already taken place. Without hitting a thing! I'm playing the defender in a PBEM QuickBattle - not a sign of any prep fire. Now that I think about it some of the windows were broken . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priest Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Usually I use near the maximum of my arti allocation for points. I usually get within 10 pts of maximum. I don't just buy recklessly but plan for the maximum effect. ------------------ Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb -Priest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Originally posted by Jasper: I'd expect the Americans to use at least as much artillery as the Russians, and if anything the Americans would use more. You might be disappointed then. The Soviets [note: The Red Army contained many nationalities besides Russians. Ukrainians, Balts, Georgians, Armenians, Tashkents, etc.] had entire artillery divisions. It can be said that the Americans used their artillery more efficiently, but that's a different issue. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 I pretty much consistently use all the Artillery/Mortars that I can get my hands on, both on-board and FO. I'm not saying I use it effectively, or that it's as decisive as any other arm, but combined with a strong infantry, it can do serious damage, and even swing the course of a battle. ------------------ Tremble, tyrants and you perfidious opprobrium of all the parties, Tremblez! your parricidal projects finally will receive their prices! But these sanguinary despots, But these accomplices of Berli, All these tigers which, without pity, Bauhaus the centre of their mother! We will enter the career When our elder is not there any more, We will find there their dust And the trace of their virtues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 I used to use very little arty except for 81mm mortars. That is, until I tried using German 150mm guns and fell in love with the effects of large blast effect weaponry. The way I see it: For suppression I just stick with cheap mortars. If I want to inflict pain(not a nuisance) I only choose large arty or some serious rockets. Heck, you may even immobilize enemy armor in the target area. ------------------ "Uncommon valor was a common virtue"-Adm.Chester Nimitz of the Marines on Iwo Jima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 I buy enough to get the job done....sometimes. Ray ------------------ When asked, "How many moves do you see ahead?", CAPABLANCA replied: "One move - the best one." Click now for shelter from the Peng thread New Site of the PLA:Rugged Defense Group Ladder The Red Army Mirror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barleyman Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Did I mention I really like 120mm mortars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Originally posted by Barleyman: Did I mention I really like 120mm mortars?You should do, when playing the German side, as these were the battalion arty on call. (The 81mm mortars were parcelled out to the companies. (On map mortars in CM.)) The Allies only had their 3"/81mm mortars on battalion level, and 2"/60mm mortars in the companies. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rex_Bellator Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 IMHO artillery is often a substitute for skill and planning in this game. I normally fight smallish QBs anyway and feel that it is way too easy to just sit back and let the (IMHO again) overpresent Arty do the work before mopping up the survivors. I prefer to fight the AI or my buddies with little or no Arty to increase the challenge. Of course if I was up against someone I didn't know or it was a grudge match I'd buy bucketloads of the stuff ------------------ In blossom today then scattered, life is so like a delicate flower, how can one expect the fragrance to last forever Vice Admiral Takijiro Ohnishi - Commander Kamikaze Special Attack Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ron Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 I'm with Rex. There's way too much arty in use for the scale of battles generally being fought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barleyman Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Do I hear complaints of people who rely on static defence here I usually use 120mm mortars since they strike good balance between firepower, ammo loadout and price. Not to mention it's there when you need it, not 2 turns late. Yeah, 155mm is just so macho, but with just one or two salvoes it's not terribly cost-effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Arty is like air power. It's exciting and impressive to do massive damage from a safe distance. But it doesn't take and hold land. I prefer vehicle-based infantry guns, because 1) the response time is shorter, and 2) most of my shells are likely to hit the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 So much talking about the scale... every arty spotter represents 4 Artillery squads with one barrel. Take a 105mm with 100 rounds, this means 25 rounds each barrel. That's not to much. In my military service, my battalion had 1 staff company, 3 infantry companys and 1 heavy company (where I served), with AT-rockets and SIX 120mm selfpropelled mortars! PLUS several heavy Artillerybattalions from the Division. And that's only the nominal strengh in peacetime. In my own battles, I buy usualy as much Artillery as allowed, calibers how I guess that I will need them. ------------------ Keine Gefangenen! Visit my Combat Mission Sound Mods site! Scipiobase Join the Blitzkrieg Wargaming Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted February 21, 2001 Author Share Posted February 21, 2001 Originally posted by Rex_Bellator: IMHO artillery is often a substitute for skill and planning in this game. Thanks. I now understand things a little better. I mean that in all sincerity. The Germans said the same thing about the Russian's. And of course about the American's too, but that's not as politically popular to repeat. Implicit in this argument is: (a) Man for man I'm better than him, and if I could only get out from under this wall of fire I'd prove it ( If I had as much artillery as him, that I wouldn't use it as much as he does. (Kinda sounds a little like the common stereo type of the Soviet military during WWII doesn't it?) Falling through that we arrive at - "Well OK I'd use it, but I'd do it better". Or "more efficiently". Both 'better' and 'efficient' are sufficiently ambiguous to be meaningless. Until we start to try and apply some measure - and then we're off to the debate zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted February 21, 2001 Author Share Posted February 21, 2001 Michael emrys: You're right - I tend to use the terms 'Soviet' and 'Russian' as interchangable, and they're not. In future I'll be more carful to avoid confusion. And use 'Soviet' 99% of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rex_Bellator Posted February 22, 2001 Share Posted February 22, 2001 I'm not saying that I'm right or wrong or better or worse, it's just the way I (and a few others) personally like to play the game. I have no problems with anyone who likes to use loads of arty, it is great fun to stand back and cause all that carnage after all, I'm just expressing my view which is what this thread requested. For the record I never use a 'static defense ' because I almost never defend. Plus I will stand by my view that cracking a well thought out defense is much tougher without arty than with. Finally, I'm here for fun and not for an argument, I can get that off the wife anytime Oh, I'd better say I can get some fun as well just in case some malicious soul finds her email & forwards this... ------------------ In blossom today then scattered, life is so like a delicate flower, how can one expect the fragrance to last forever Vice Admiral Takijiro Ohnishi - Commander Kamikaze Special Attack Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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