rune Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 I have just read an AAR where the Challenger tank was used in a Cromwell Recon detachment of the 11th Armored Division in July of 1944. I see that in June of 1944, there were 18 stationed in the UK as a reserve, and 24 assigned to a Czech unit, but were not in use, as they could not get waterproofed in time. I have done a historical scenario on the attack of 11th Armor on Bourgebus Ridge, but not sure if the AAR is correct. 11th Armored had 10 of them in December of 44 for sure, then were taken away from the unit. Bottom line: Does anyone know for sure if they had the Challengers in July of 44? I want to keep this scenario historical, and I have put them in for now, but not a lot. Any help appreciated on this one. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 I think they only got them from August, and it would be one per troop of four at that stage (same arrangement as with Fireflies). Also, I think that the original Recce Rgt (2nd Northants Yeo) of 11th AD was disbanded after GOODWOOD and replaced by another unit, 15/17 KRH IIRC, and these may well have come with different tanks, since almost all Recce tanks got lost during GOODWOOD. Edit: I check when I get home tonight. Email me to remind me. There is also a good discussion on UK armour strengths in the Tips & Tricks forum. [ 06-26-2001: Message edited by: Germanboy ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 The first Challengers issued were sent to the 4th CLY, 7th Armoured division in Normandy. They were most likely issued on 24 July 1944. The reconnaissance regiment of the 11th Armoured Division, the 2nd Northamptonshire Yeomanry, had Challengers in August 1944. This unit was withdrawn the same month because of high casualties, and replaced with the 15th/19th Royal Hussars who operated Challengers until the unit reequipped with Comets in early 1945. Now, having them in August doesn't necessarily mean they didn't have them in July, but in any event they definitely didn't have them before July 24th, and probably later. What was the date of that AAR? [ 06-26-2001: Message edited by: Babra ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Babra: The first Challengers issued were sent to the 4th CLY, 7th Armoured division in Normandy. They were most likely issued on 24 July 1944. The reconnaissance regiment of the 11th Armoured Division, the 2nd Northamptonshire Yeomanry, had Challengers in August 1944. This unit was withdrawn the same month because of high casualties, and replaced with the 15th/19th Royal Hussars who operated Challengers until the unit reequipped with Comets in early 1945. Now, having them in August doesn't necessarily mean they didn't have them in July, but in any event they definitely didn't have them before July 24th, and probably later. What was the date of that AAR? [ 06-26-2001: Message edited by: Babra ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks for the info Babra - not easy to do it from memory, with all the funny names of the British Army. I would suspect the date to be July 18th or 19th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted June 27, 2001 Author Share Posted June 27, 2001 If that is the case, then they were able to be there and the AAR may be correct. I love how history is so grey instead of black and white. The 11th Armored should of known I would create evil scenarios out fo their battles. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted June 27, 2001 Share Posted June 27, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rune: If that is the case, then they were able to be there and the AAR may be correct. I love how history is so grey instead of black and white. The 11th Armored should of known I would create evil scenarios out fo their battles. Rune<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Rune, what is the date of the battle you do? Also, I am 100% certain that 11th Armoured Recce took Challengers into Germany in 1945. I have pictures of a Challenger of 15/19 KRH post-VARSITY. Edit: Try this: http://www.panser.dk/profiler/chall/challa30.htm [ 06-26-2001: Message edited by: Germanboy ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted June 27, 2001 Author Share Posted June 27, 2001 July 18th. Bourgebus Ridge and the fighting near Caen. Being tested right now, turned out good. The Challenger tank is the only confusion so far. The normal platoon had 3 Cromwells and a Firefly. However the one AAR reported one challanger lost. So, I added one due to that report, I had three but took out 2 and left the one. Also did a 2nd Canadian Division's attack in the Forest area around Dunkirk. And now finishing another HUGE one, but historical, on the fighting near Overloon. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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