Guest Rex_Bellator Posted January 13, 2001 Share Posted January 13, 2001 I've just finished a scenario where 2 Hiding 17pdrs allowed 4 Tigers to advance right up to them and blow them apart without at least getting the first shot away. The Tigers fired from about 25m which I assume was when they eyeballed the guns, and the 17pdrs would have had a fair chance of a KO long before then. I've also seen a couple of other posts on other threads noting that Hiding tanks have been passing up easy kills. I'm pretty sure that this is a new occurance as Hiding units usually fired when presented with an irresistable target, but was unable to find anything in the Readme with the new patch which says that the Hide command is changed. Has anyone else noticed similar events or am I being as dumb/paranoid/forgetful as ever. By the way I would definitely not consider this a bug if it is true, it could be a very useful command change. I'm going to play a couple more games tomorrow and watch carefully... ------------------ "We're not here to take it - We're here to give it" General Morshead's response to the popular newspaper headline "Tobruk Can Take It" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted January 13, 2001 Share Posted January 13, 2001 One thing players have difficulty getting used to in CM is that it allows a wide range of improbable things to happen. Sorta like real life that way... Based on that, I would not take a single event (or even a dozen of them) as representative of a norm. If it shows up in a large percentage of, say, a thousand trials, then it would be time to get concerned by it. Statistics is funny stuff sometimes. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rex_Bellator Posted January 13, 2001 Share Posted January 13, 2001 LOL ! I've just booked a month off work to perform those 1000 tests. My post was just a general question and not trying to scientifically prove or disprove anything. Just looking for others experiences. As for statistics, I'm in total agreement with Vic Reeves who pointed out that "82.2% of statistics are made up on the spot" ------------------ "We're not here to take it - We're here to give it" General Morshead's response to the popular newspaper headline "Tobruk Can Take It" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted January 13, 2001 Share Posted January 13, 2001 Ehhhhh... Either the hide command works like this or it does not. I for one have had the same experiences as Rex. Targets in plain sight at close, medium and long range, and not a peep from my guns. I reversed (in case armour was a factor)Shermans in numbers or singly (in case numbers was a factor), towards entire companies and batteries of hidden guns and vehicles. And still nothing. They have stayed "hidden" and that's not a matter of chance. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talorc Posted January 13, 2001 Share Posted January 13, 2001 Try putting an Ambush marker down in front of them. (About 100 or so meters out should do it) They will engage any decent target then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rex_Bellator Posted January 13, 2001 Share Posted January 13, 2001 It seems to be happening all the time now, I've just seen a Stug, a 50mm AT Gun and a Panzershreck team all refuse to fire using their own initiative (like before) while hidden. If you keep them selected during the replay you will see that they don't begin to react until one of the famous yellow (incoming) lines is upon them, then they will instantly start to seek targets and open up. I don't know if this is a bug or a feature but it is certainly different to prior versions of CM. I always used to rely on the discretion of the unit commander - I can't any longer. Yeah I know about ambush markers and they would probably fix this, but the HQ doesn't always have a view appropriate for all of his units plus there'll be lots of extra work in plotting them all. What really worried me in that battle was that when a squad of Fallschirmjager came under fire they stood up, turned to the left and targetted (without firing thank goodness) the Panzershreck unit next to them I couldn't believe it but at least it propmted the Panzershreck to stand up and attempt a shot at the sitting duck tank destroyer 70m away. I'm going for another game now but tcp/ip instead of against the AI and I'll keep a keen eye out for any more anomalies like that. I'm amazed that lot's more people haven't noticed similar things which leads me to wonder about a) My sanity and My own CM version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted January 14, 2001 Share Posted January 14, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rex_Bellator: What really worried me in that battle was that when a squad of Fallschirmjager came under fire they stood up, turned to the left and targetted (without firing thank goodness) the Panzershreck unit next to them I couldn't believe it but at least it propmted the Panzershreck to stand up and attempt a shot at the sitting duck tank destroyer 70m away.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LOL! Now there's motivational psychology for you! One imagines the discussion proceeding somewhat along these lines: "Hey, Fritz, either pull your fingers out and do something about that %*#@@@ing TD or *we're* gonna do something about you!" <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I'm amazed that lot's more people haven't noticed similar things which leads me to wonder about a) My sanity and My own CM version.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Like I said, CM allows a lot of improbable things to happen. Ordinarily you wouldn't expect them to happen very often, but there's no law that says you can't flip an honest coin and have it come up a hundred times in a row either. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted January 14, 2001 Share Posted January 14, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rex_Bellator: LOL ! I've just booked a month off work to perform those 1000 tests.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Glad you're taking it so well. What I had in mind was that, given the number of people playing CM and the number of games that get played every week, it shouldn't take very long at all for a major anomaly such as you describe to turn up if it is more than simply a random and rare oddity. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted January 14, 2001 Share Posted January 14, 2001 "Hide", as I understand the command, is used exactly to exercise fire discipline. It means an order not to fire, to wait for the enemy to get closer, so as not to give away the location of the hiding unit. When the enemy is close enough and you want to engage him, give the order to "stop hiding" and the bushwhacker lying in wait will open up. An ambush marker may have a similar effect. Understand, if hide did not have this effect then nothing else would. There is no other way to tell a unit *not* to fire, so as not to give itself away yet. In the example given, the guns were obviously hiding pretty darn well, to not be spotted until they were 25 yards away! But the CO involved should have told them to open up at 200 meters or whatever, by changing their order to "stop hiding", etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipmonkey Posted January 14, 2001 Share Posted January 14, 2001 Funny my problems been the opposite, my gun won't stay hidden in v1.1. In a recent scenerio my 6 pounders all decided to come out of the hidden command at max range to kill some halftracks instead of the Pv IVs right behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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