The Commissar Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 OK, I did a search and came up with so many results dealing with snipers, I dreaded looking at more then half a dozen. Still, I dint find what I was looking for so I'll as here. I know this isn't the best source to go by, but...in CC3 (ducks and looks around to make sure no one is throwing themselves on me with a butcher knife) it mentioned that snipers were supposedly trained in hand to hand combat. OK - DONT[b\] want to start any flames here or nothing, but is there any truth behind this? It would certaintly be more interesting to have my sniper fight off attackers rather then sit there and stare dumbly at the enemy at close range. Also, sniper to sniper duels would actually happen at close range (see the "Enemy at the Gates scenario" thread to find out what happens in CM at the moment). Would this be plausible to model for CM2, or am I speaking crap due to the fact that I got this info from a game that isnt exactly know for its uber-realism. Thanks in advance. Cheers! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 OK - DONT want to start any flames here or nothing, but is there any truth behind this? It would certaintly be more interesting to have my sniper fight off attackers rather then sit there and stare dumbly at the enemy at close range. I think this is easily answered. There are no snipers in CM. They are sharpshooters. The difference has been explained in the past, and it's pretty simple. Snipers are *highly trained* individuals who operated in pairs or by themselves behind enemy lines. Not in the field that CM represents. The sharpshooters in CM are just that. Really good shots. They are given a scoped rifle and told, "Shoot valuable targets". Other than that, they have no special training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 I doubt very much that true snipers did hand to hand anything. Certainly, not if they could help it. Everyone got some rudimentary training in hand to hand combat. They also learned to polish their boots, keep their socks dry, scrap carbon deposits off the bolts of their rifles, and for most fill out forms too. So what? The last thing a real sniper was seeking on a battlefield was close combat. The whole point of sniping is to have an entirely one sided engagement, shooting once from complete obscurity and then vanishing. I realise this doesn't make much of a competitive game. Attempts to make it into one, let alone with hand to hand combat thrown in for spice, are sergeant rock comic books. Does this mean that close combat never occurred for a sniper? No. He might accidentally run into someone sneaking through an area he thought was deserted. Or while he fired at a target blocks away, someone nearby might have heard the report and gone after him. Such close combats in urban settings were mostly fought with grenades, not hand weapons or even small arms. The two sides usually could not see each other despite being extremely close, close enough to hear each other. The reason for that is simple - so close, if they can see each other then one of the other gets shot and there is an end of it. Advancing into the other guy's LOS is suicide. So they toss grenades into each other's rooms instead. After the explosion, they might rush into the room to shoot anyone (still) there - or not, and instead throw another. I suspect the whole reason the subject arises at all, besides the sergeant rock effect, is that somebody or other is trying to capture everything that goes on in a massive, prolonged street battle like Stalingrad, all at once. This is mostly poppycock. The snipers did not fight the "grenade-n-spray the room" war. They fought the "sneak through rubble for 3 days to get one clean shot" war. The former of those, the sport of the regular infantry, was much more common and much more deadly. Entire divisions disappeared in 3 days fighting that way. Snipers were effective, precisely because they lived a lot longer than that. They did not take out nearly as many men overall, but they had a much higher KO ratio, because the grenade-n-spray war tended to involve a lot of nearly-even trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrew Hedges Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 Actually, EATG did a good job of showing why it would be hard for snipers to participate in normal CM style combat -- when bombs and stuff are going off, there are huge clouds of dust and debris that interfere with getting a clear shot from a restricted location. And it's distracting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted March 18, 2001 Author Share Posted March 18, 2001 Actually, I mentioned it not only because of the movie, but also because I got several of my sharpshooters get run over by a depleted squad an enemy rushed into the building. Again, comparing it to CC3 (not a very wise thing I'll admit) it was much tougher. Im not real sure how much training they did get, maybe it was small stuff like jason said. I would like them to be somewhat more effective then sharpshooters in CM. At least I hope that is the case, they were more effective instead of being just another "good shot". ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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