bluemx Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Hello, Dweebs can destroy a online game BUT there is a simple solution to the guy on your same side toasting his own squad with a grenade. WARBIRDS a decent ww2 flight sim online, solves the problem of same side killings easy. You shot at a friendly and they can't be hurt and the bullets hit you instead. Not real i know, but it works. It could stink its possible and on the other hand if they keep equipment historical with good models it could be something great. If I do anymore recommending of Combat Mission I will be a walking advertisement. Every gaming and history buff I know has been introduced to the game by my undieing recommendations. To quote my friend and gaming buddy a former West Pointer and member of 82nd Airborne "He said this game is so good you can use to train cadets and officers on ground tactics." Only down side to Combat Mission and it a MINOR one. Is the G O D control we gamers exercise over the battlefield allowing us to conduct tactics with perfect timing and cordination. The FOG of war is awesome in game but the Confusion factor of a real battle is missing. Imagine you set up a battle for combat mission and deploy your troops. And then when both side hit go. Real players are are command of each unit on a first person veiw. NOW that would be something else. Most the time it funnest to command on a grand scale. But sometimes it is fun to get in a plane and lead a squad of commrades on a mission to attack a enemy field. Or to set up voice communications with your best friends and on a friday night and pick up rifles and try to take that enemy held town. Anyways can't wait for CM Easternfront and hope they add a Early War western front. Is there any news of a early war version of CM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob/1 Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 That will be CM4 if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Imagine you set up a battle for combat mission and deploy your troops. And then when both side hit go. Real players are are command of each unit on a first person veiw. NOW that would be something else. Picture trying to get some of the posters on this board trying to work together within a unit in a persistant WWII FPS like this....would we even move a foot without arguments starting and people going off to do what they want anyway? t'would indeed be something else As far as shooting your own buddies and instead the team-killer takes the damage....what happens when you fire at an enemy with a tank HE round but miss and hit your buddies by accident? Playing devils-advocate but I've played in three different MMORPGs and a couple of supposedly "team" FPS games. The only way your going to get people to work together is staying within a group or team of people you know. Even this can be tedious at times when you really want to do one thing but your group/team wants to do something else. Usually you end up with an "elite" inner circle of the group/team that does most of the cool stuff and leaves out the rest of the group/team. It'll be intresting to watch the initial chaos of WWII online and then see if it coelesces into a few strong uber-groups controlling most of what happens and getting the most out of special events run by the online game-masters Tiger the skeptic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Yeah Tiger, I can see it now. "Lootenant Snort, position your men in the woods on the South side of the map." "Captain, that is gamey, the Germans might not like it." "Lootenant Snort, that is a direct order." "Hey man, you can't order me, you ain't the boss of me!" "Sarge, the Captain wants us to be gamey." "I ain't gonna be gamey, he can be gamey." "Hey, Captain, shouldn't we mahoover instead of trying to atrit em?" "Sarge, I think it best to atrit em myself." "Yeah, thats on account of you hanging out in the Cess pool." "Hey, Kraut tank up ahead." "Where up ahead you idiot?" "Aw, man, it has one of Marco's mods on it, I don't wanna kill it." "Captain" "Captain" "Hey Captain!" "Where'd the Captain go?" "Oh, he said his Wife told him he hadda get off on account of his MudderinLaw was sposed to call." Yep, it would be really something alright... ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Well lets just look at your thread topic here: Wow, tough crowd on WW2Online AS a veteran member on this board, I can recall that WW2Online was being worked on back during the beta days of CM. And most of us have been aware of the game since then as well. So when you come on here and bring it up again for the upteenth time since then, well you can see why we reacted the way we did. And as far as our skepticism towards the game, most of us are pretty much aware of how massive multiplayer games end up being. And that is full of teenyboppers who don't know their own asshole from a hole in the ground. Hell, I for that matter would have a hard time trying to work as a team under the command of some jackass that wouldn't know his "Inner Croda" if it bit'em on the ass. I used to play paintball and at what we call "big games" or campaign-type games where you have two large sides (armies) and you have a chain of command and the gamemasters give each sides commanders a goal to accomplish. It's up to each side's commanders or come up with a plan to accomplish their goal. Well, when you don't have a strict chain of command like you do in the Armed Forces, there is nothing to keep each assigned group from actually doing what they were told to do. This is the case with Massive Multi-player games when you don't have any dire consequences if you don't follow orders. Back in '96 I played a campaign game based on Desert Storm. I played on the Iraqi side as a Front Line troop I believe it was. There were several landmarks on the field, Baghdad, Basra, Bahrain, and Kuwait City. Our base was of course Baghdad. It wasn't much more than a small shelter made of several pieces of sheet metal bent around in a small circular bunker. Basra was just a marker out on a dirt mound. We got into a hellava fire-fight there! LOL! This game even went into the night and some people actually had some night-vision goggles! BUT anyway, it all boiled down to freelance actions, nobody followed the commanders orders. We just took into account of the objective and we decided our own way on how to accomplish the mission. So this is what massive-multiplayer games usually boil down to. ------------------ For your dream car click here. For a Close Encounter click here. Hey look! I can see my house! And for all you Hamster Lovers out there, check this out! Kitty, this one's for you! [This message has been edited by Maximus (edited 03-14-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Warrior Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Maybe there is another way to approach this issue of too much control short of having a gaggle of FPS's. Remember the AH Tactical card game, Up Front. If you recall in Up Front one couldn't perform an action until drawing the proper card. Now this my seem artificial but if one thinks of this as a manner of modeling the human element then maybe its not so artificial. I thought that something akin to the method in Up Front could be added to CM to model the human element. The user interface does not have to have actual cards per se but the effect could be incorporated into the game system in a more subtle way by using virtual cards so to speak. A virtual card is unseen by the players but represents what a unis is thinking and feeling or what it knows or doesn't know. The side with better training and C2 assets can draw cards at a higher rate and thus have more option open to it per unit time. For example if a unit doesn't have a initiative card all it could do is be moved in a group move (except to move into cover). Or maybe it can only move a short distance until it gets a strategic move "card". You could model the OODA loop paradigm, observe, orient, decide, and act. where first one has to draw a observe card first, then a orient card, then a decide card before it can act. The better view of the battle it has the better chance it has of getting an observe card, the better training the better chance it has of getting a orient, etc. The function of the cards would be to slow the tempo of operations down and make coordination between units a little more difficult. The cards could also add a bit of color and personality and even national characteristics to the game without messing up the physics of the game engine. And ofcoure one could have the option of turning them off for the control freaks. [This message has been edited by Midnight Warrior (edited 03-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Actually, I think you are all trying to doom this game before it hits the market. Maximus, just because you think you know something about campaign systems, doesn't mean you know squat. Have you played the game or even know anything at all about it? Didn't think so. And the campaign game will work as good as they can get it. With the players having to pay to play, I think that it will be a bit better than your average FPS game. Especially since the only way you will gain rank is by accomplishing missions, and you are not out there as some solo unit in a big world. You have squadmates and such to help to keep you in line. There will be controls in place that keep the teeny-bopper crowd from becoming TKers. And just because you played paintball in '96 doesnt make you an expert on anything that is tactical. And please buy another box of cracker-jacks so you can get a new shiny diplomatic passport. And this game will not even live up to the hype and promise that people hope it will be. Nothing will except the real thing. CM doesnt live up to everything people want it to be, not even Steve and Charles. Is it a good game, why yes it is. Could it be better, why yes it could. And BTW, CMers go and spam on other games message boards, and if they hadn't, CM wouldnt have been as popular as it is. So lighten up on the new guys getting excited about something else. ------------------ When asked, "How many moves do you see ahead?", CAPABLANCA replied: "One move - the best one." Click now for shelter from the Peng thread New Site of the PLA:Rugged Defense Group Ladder The Red Army Mirror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Well, I don't think WW2OL is hyped by the guys who made it, mainly by the folks who are into it. O, am i the only one who finds groups naming themselves after the Einsatzgruppen (sp?) a little freaking odd? (NO that name WASN'T used by the German Navy you sick F**ks).. Anyway, ww2ol will be just a land/ocean/air version of Warbirds. Folks will log in, find the base closest to the enemy, try and get their first-choice unit and then play till they die. If there are friends around they might stick with them. If someone calls out 'hey guys, lets all go bash X town' they might follow. Appart from that it's pretty much chaos. Squads will invoke some kind of order. They will attack towns and do whatever tasks is required to take them in some kind of organized fashion and then repeat for their squad night. It will be a cool game, but for me it will be ww2 version of Counter Strike. For history/campaign I see nothing online that comes close to the CMMC. O, yeah, I have a mate in the beta. PeterNZ ------------------ - Official owner of the sig files of Dalem, Croda and JeffShandorf - Der Kessel scenario design group Combat Vision movies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Originally posted by PeterNZer: Anyway, ww2ol will be just a land/ocean/air version of Warbirds. Folks will log in, find the base closest to the enemy, try and get their first-choice unit and then play till they die. If there are friends around they might stick with them. If someone calls out 'hey guys, lets all go bash X town' they might follow. Appart from that it's pretty much chaos. that may be true Pete.. but if you are single player with the mind set I am against the world you will die fast and a horrible death. If you join a group that forms a Division or trys to and makes quordinated attacks with combined arms and not just infantry running around the place and tanks doing what they want without listening to the Tank Group commander.. your attack will fail. FPS games are mostly like that.. free for all, but with no real plan of attack.. just kill.. in WWII online if you manage to take out a bridge you stall the enemy from advancing allowing you to bring up support... or if you managed to wipe out or capture a supply base the other side has less well.. supplies to use. I have played FPS often enough to see a group (which I was fighting agains) that actually used Unit command and combined firepower of coverfire and advance.. we had no chance.. my fecking team were all rambos thinking they could take on the world.. we lost needless to say.. when "bub" left his flank position that he was supposed to be covering for us cuz." all the action was by the warehouse, and I wanted some action!".. well thanks "bub" your leaving your position allowed four guys to slip buy us now we have attackers infront and behind... in the end pete.. sure I don't mind if those dolts want to make Rambo IIIIV or somefink.. the people that will shine through are the ones that will work together with combined arms. when people see "oh it works and damn how did it work" they will do the same. Now I'm not saying which game is better or comparing apples to oranges, but WWII online have a many groups that want to form fighting units.. you follow a chain of command and bla bla and so forth.. you don't follow the rules you get kicked out of the team.. and I'm sure it would spread like wildfire that your not a team player. Since the game is not out, and is in beta testing I am not going to point fingers saying it suck or it rocks, I have my expecations on what its going to be like and hope it is.. if not then, my loss no one elses... does that mean I will stop playing CM.. not a chance in hell. ----------- www.derkessel.com Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Hey, don't get me wrong, I fully intend to play it, I just happen to have plyed A LOT of online games now (anyone remember door games?) and basically how i describe it is how it happens. Sure, you won't survive long wandering around on your own, (unless it's late at night when that's what will INNEVITABLY happen), but in the end you will log in, find some other people on your side and wander to the front line with them. It's a FPS with some more detail. And it will play like CS I think. In CS there are those who can do EXTREMELY well on their own. This WILL be the case in ww2 online. Some just like playing that way. Clearly this is more doable in fighters. Gimme a P51 and I can outrun things in the air and shoot up most things on the ground. If I want to go it alone I can. There are also those who do well in a team. This generally comes down to a mob of folks being better able to kill someone who isn't in a mob and seldom are there more tactics than that. There will be the cool missions and stuff which means that instead of everyone running in every direction you're more likely to see your team heading in the same direction, but don't confuse this with combine arms tactics and careful planning which will almost certainly not exist out side of squads doing their weekly night. If I sound jaded it's because perhaps I am! I have played these games before. It was great fun in WB planning complex missions and the RNZAF got pretty good at it. Massed bomber formations and closing fields was a blast, but often we swarmed around in a mass zapping whoever we came across. There's nothing wrong with this, it's great fun, but don't expect the second coming when WW2 goes gold folks PeterNZ ------------------ - Official owner of the sig files of Dalem, Croda and JeffShandorf - Der Kessel scenario design group Combat Vision movies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gashford Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Quick off topic for Tiger, do you play EQ? Reply to me by email if you want so we don't flatten the thread. gashford@freenetname.co.uk Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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