Skolman Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Can anyone tell me who is firing the coaxial MG (the one mounted in the turret) Is it the loader or the guy who aims the main gun ? ...and btw : when i see pictures of U.S. tanks like shermans they all have the flexible MG mounted to fire at the rear....was it possible to fire them forward ? Oi ! Skolman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebulon Pleasure Beast Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 I've always had the impression that the coax is linked to the main gun, so the gunner aims and fires it. 'tleast all the tank games I've played has it like that. (Whoa, what a truly reliable source, that) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolman Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 thanks for the answer....but it depends on what game you play...in battlefield 1942 you can opperate an battletank on your own... ..and what about the flexible MGs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Fleixible MGs? You mean the AA MGs? At least they often had such mounts that they could be fired rear and up, as this was the typical approach of enemy aircraft strafing. No it was not normally possible to fire them forward, unless you stood on the rear plate of the tank, behind the turret. We see this happening in at least one episode of Band of Brothers. Shermans are assaulting German positions and tank commanders are firing AAMG standing behind the turrets. My guess is that this was a very undesirable job. I know I would never do it. Until I meet someone who would, I'll write those parts of BOB down to fiction. The coaxial MG of German 5-man crew tanks was fired by the gunner, using a simple button. It was used to help him aim, exclusively, as far as I have read. Thus aligned to main armament and normally using tracer rounds rather than standard ordnance. He sat (typically) left of the barrel in the tank and fired while looking into his optics, with a finger on the other button. When satisfied, he fired main armament. This operation was ideally very fast. The loader was standing up, "behind" the barrel, laboring, and as far as I know had no means of ever looking out of the tank from his position. Infantry targets would be kept at bay using BMG rather than CMG. The CMG was moved by moving the main armament, so it was not as swift. As for how crews of other nationalities divided labors in tanks, I am really unsure. Hope it helps Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolman Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 If i am for sure you can fire the 50.cal AA MG allround the tank ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Well yes you could fire the AAMG in all directions, because the mount could turn in all directions. Only the Japanese used mounts that could not turn. The mounting, however, was fastened rear of the turret hatch (of the commander). The mount was a hollow pipe pointing straight up and not the circular type often seen today, surrounding hatches. So, the MG, while able to traverese 360 degrees, nonetheless remained fastened rear of the turret hatch. Sitting in the turret, you were able to fire rearwards. Turning the AAMG to point forward would mean holding on to the barrel, as you would be unable to reach the trigger. Firing rearwards and up was the designed purpose, as in this position the commander would not have to expose very much of his body firing. If he wanted to fire at ground level targets (rearwards), he would have to expose his body in proportion to the depressing of his aim. Very dangerous. If he was willing to leave his turret, he would be able to enjoy the full 360 degree traverse of this weapon. However, he would be 100% exposed of course. The issue was of course different post introduction of remote control machineguns. At this link http://www.granddadshobbyshop.com/Sherman.jpg there is a cover of a book on Shermans with a pic of the same at the bottom. You can clearly see the mounting of the AAMG, to the rear of the turret hatch. The weapon is pointing forwards, which makes it obvious where the trigger is in such a stance. Regards Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj. Battaglia Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Gentlemen, Regarding the 50 cal AA mounting on the Sherman, please see a thread started by Michael Dorosh back in December. I found it to be a fascinating topic because it showed that there really was no one answer to this question. I pulled away from it that generally, the 50 cal was not used from within the turret against ground targets unless a modification to the mounting was made. Use of .50 cal against infantry Feel free to add any additional info to this thread, if you have some. It was a great topic (thanks again, Michael). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HVAP Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 I think there were a couple instances in the pacific where the smaller browning was attatched in a more useful position because of the close quarters that occasionally sprung up. Does anyone have any info? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Well I saw this picture of an M4A1, or a bunch of them rather, having the AAMG mounted in front of the hatch. These machines were all pristine and still in CONUS just after production as I recall. It surprised me, so I remember it. But I don't know if they were going to the Pacific or West, nor if this was common practice or some extraordinary measure. Regards Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolman Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 Thanks for the replys....but what about german AA MG´s. I´ve seen some pictures of Panzer III and IV having a flexible MG mounted on the turret...how common was this ? and why we don´t have this in Combat Mission ? Oi ! Skolman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 I know just the guy to answer this, but he seems to have gone off the air completely. I'll give you an answer of less solidity, as my sourcebooks are nowhere near his on this particular topic. The PzKpfw models that I know of had factory-made AAMG mounts were IVJ, VG, VIE, and VIB. So did the StuG III and StuH series. These mounts were fixed to the commanders cupola itself and could be fired in the axis of the main armament, though in a wider arc. Looking at pictures, though, one clearly finds that not all tanks of these models chose to utilise these mounts, and especially in Africa other models seem to have arranged their own AAMG mounts. I have even seen bipod MG34's welded to the turret. But by 1944, I have not seen any pictures from the West showing panzers with mounted AAMGs. Of course, it's not like I have seen every picture there is. APCs and ACs all had AAMG, though not necessarily flexible ones. I am not sure why the use of panzer AAMG was more or less discontinued. Anyone? From what one can read, the use of machinegun barrages was effective in forcing enemy ground attack to keep their distance. Regards Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Small addition to clarify: With AAMG I mean a machinegun mounted on top of a turret (bzw) intended for use against aircraft. The Coaxial machinegun would be the one mounted alongside the main armament. Of course, the AAMG was also "coaxial" in the sense that it pointed rear or forward and was in effect limited in its arc of fire by the position of the turret. The AAMG can also be "Bow mounted" in the same sense, e.g. on the US Priest. But above I mean only the turret variant All the best Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Of course, the AAMG was also "coaxial" in the sense that it pointed rear or forward and was in effect limited in its arc of fire by the position of the turret. The AAMG can also be "Bow mounted" in the same sense, e.g. on the US Priest. Co-axial means that it is mounted so that it points in the same direction as the main armament(in elevation and traverse), not the turret. In the sense that you're talking about, it would be considered as "turret mounted". Along similar line of definition, a co-axial cable (TV aerial cable) has two conducting mediums that follow exactly the same path (arranged as concentric circles on a cross-section) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolman Posted March 29, 2003 Author Share Posted March 29, 2003 ....I did some research and found a picture showing M4 Sherman with a 50cal mounted on the turret to fire forward...i guess it was 1945 in Austria Oi ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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