WW-II AT gun german ammo supply?

[Paul Lakowski]

Hi guys , I was wondering if any one had info on the consumption and production of WW-II german AT gun ammo?

I have info on arty that suggests that in mid 1941 they had ~ 3500-3600 rounds per gun [ FH-105] and the consuption was ~ 18O

rounds per gun per month. While production was about 1/3 to 1/4 of this figure.

I'm looking for similar info on AT guns or any snips.

[jasoncawley@ameritech.net]

Great question, but I don't know the answer.

On your figures, be careful of one-month figures, because the consumption rate will exceed the production rate in periods of heavy combat, but over the long run it simply cannot do so. (There aren't enough stocks to drawn down continually, especially for the mix of types that will be firing later in the war, etc).

Mid 1941 means, of course, Operation Barbarossa, the huge initial battles with the Russians. Not surprising therefore that the rate of consumption was well above the rate of production. They were drawning down the stocks built up and dumped forward to prepare for that campaign, over several months when the consumption rate was near zero (just limited fighting in the Balkan campaign, not artillery-intensive by comparison).

[Paul Lakowski]

I'll look more into guns and ammo later, Can any one tell me the survival rate of AT guns on the eastern front in 1941/1942?

Also how many Russian artillery pieces did the Germans capture in 1941?

[Jasper]

Rounds per gun. It's not as easy as that. You have to consider the transport of that stuff to the front where it can do some good.

Capture of Russian artillery. Consequently reused by Germans? Or just lost to the Russians? Where are you coming from?

[:USERNAME:]

Panzertruppen 2 gives a couple of usage stats on a unit basis. Of interest is the vehicle types (still using pIII up till early 1944) and the amount of armor and other equipment claimed destroyed.

This is on page 129 by the way.

[Stoffel]

If you read specific books about individual German divisions you will get these nrs.

For instance ,the book about the second Ss division,Totenkopf, Soldiers of destruction.

will tell you what equipment the division had

seized.ANd it was quite heavy.

In the battles before Kursk they managed to seize many tanks and guns from the russians.

They alone captured 615 T-34's,400 howitzers and 600 Antitankguns off various calibres

All equipment was reused by the Germans the 7.62 mm field gun was rebored and put on a marder for instance.others were modified and put on a 75mmatgun chassis(designated FK288/1r)

[This message has been edited by Stoffel (edited 01-29-2001).]

[Paul Lakowski]

Right after Moscow 1941 they produced about 600 Marders with the 76L51 gun, but no such gun existed in the Russian inventory they had 76L41 [ 1.5 ton field gun] and 76L56 [3 ton AAA].Any one know for sure which gun was used .

Lt Gen Heinz -Georglemm [ 12th Inf Div ,II corps ;Intial Period of War on the Eastern Front; D Glantz pp229 "When the lack of penetrating power of the small German AntiTank guns became clear,hundreds of captured 7.62cm guns were sucessfully employed as antitank guns following minor technical modifications."

If this was so easy why didn't they convert the lot and just boost the 75mm ammo production at the expence of the 'increasingly usless 50L60 Pak 38?

In addition theres a reference somewhere that another 600 76s were converted to Pak 36 or 39s.

My estimates put the number of 76s in storage ware houses occupied within the first weeks of Barbarossa at 4000 guns plus some thing like 3 million rounds of ammo....I conclude the following from When Titans Clash.Heres some more estimates based on warehouse strenght.

~ 4000 x 76mm field guns with 2.5 to 3 million rounds of ammo [ ~4 months based on german 'fall 1941'arty consumption]

~1000 x 122mm Field Guns with 2 million rounds of ammo[ ~10months supply based on german 'fall 1941'arty consumption]

~1200x152mm Field Guns with ~1.7million rounds of ammo[~8 months supply based on german 'fall 1941'arty consumption]

~2000 x 82mm Mortors with ~ 4 million rounds of ammo [~8 months supply based on german 'fall 1941'arty consumption]

~ 500 x 120mm Mortors with ~ 2.3 million rounds of ammo[~18 months supply based on german 'fall 1941'arty consumption]

~ 600 x 76mm AAA with ~ 0.6 million rounds of ammo [~6 months supply based on german 'fall 1941'arty consumption]

Given the appalling penetration of German AT guns until the PAK 40 came along in sufficent numbers in 43 and 44. Not exploiting such assets as these 76s and converting them all to to fire 75mm ammo is down right criminal.

[Jeff Duquette]

Paul L:

Right after Moscow 1941 they produced about 600 Marders with the 76L51 gun, but no such gun existed in the Russian inventory they had 76L41 [ 1.5 ton field gun] and 76L56 [3 ton AAA].Any one know for sure which gun was used .

Paul:

Chamberlain indicates that 7.62cm PAK36® was the Russian FK296 rebuilt to German spec.s, rechambered to take PAK40 cartridge. (pg 46 Encyclopedia of German Tanks)

Handbook of German Military Forces (pg 341): 76.2cm Pak 36® is the Russian Field gun 7.62cm FK296 ®. The built-up tube is rebored to take a longer cartridge case, and a two baffle muzzle brake is added. Length of tube 12’ 9.35”. Weight in action 3,564 lbs. Mv (APCBC) = 2,430 fps. Mv (AP40) = 3520fps. Traverse 60 degrees. Elevation –5 +75 degrees

Handbook of German Military Forces (pg 342): 76.2cm Pak 39 is the Russian Field gun 7.62cm FK297 ® …chamber was bored out, and the 7.62 muzzle brake was fitted. Length of tube 11’ 5”. Weight in action 3,360 lbs. Mv (APCBC) = 2,230 fps. Traverse 57 degrees. Elevation –6 +45 degrees. Apparently Pak39 fired same ammunition as Pak36® but had “lower performance”.

David Honner, Guns vs Armour: Indicates the Pak 36® as 76mmL55 & Pak 39® as 76mmL46. "These were captured Soviet F–22 gun model 1936 and F–22 USV gun model 1939, respectively. The differences between them were slight, with the F–22 USV gun model 1939 having a shorter barrel and slightly lower muzzle velocity (the muzzle velocity figures in the table are for the earlier F–22 gun model 1936). For all practical purposes the performance data of both guns were the same. They were modified by the Germans by having the chamber reamed out to suit a standard German cartridge, the elevating handwheel moved to the left hand side, and a muzzle brake added. They used German ammuniton which was better than the Soviet ammunition and its use simplified supply issues. Vast numbers of these guns were captured in the early weeks of the Russian campaign and were used on all fronts throughout the war."