Saving Private Spielberg

[Canadian biatch]

Originally posted by panzerwerfer42:

[QB]P-51s attacking tanks with rockets is a little odd too.

Well they did .The p51 did alout of different things in WW2.They were fighters, Bombers escorts,Tank destroyers lets just say it was the best WW2 plane .If you see a documentary on P-51 you will see they ussed rockets to destroy there target.

[Slapdragon]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roach:

The Marders in SPR were converted Hetzers; the Tigers, T34's a la Kelly's Heroes. The one in SPR that gets killed at the end has just been used for set decoration in Band of Brothers; the SS infantry ran about like headless chickens because that was what Mister Spielberg wanted them to do; similarly, all the other cock-ups on the movie were due to the fact that it was JUST a movie... and on movies time is money and there is never enough time. As one of the low-level (low-life? ) technical advisors on SPR and BoB I will quote the phrase we were always told whenever we tried to rectify a glaring mistake - "We're making a movie not a documentary." And that my friends is how Hollywood invented World War Two.

Peace.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To defend them a bit. Sometimes you are just up against the budget and time wall, so you try your best to make something good enough. I just shot for the DOJ an open set in ANZIO, but the actor involved could not pick up the BAR he was suppose to have (and the BAR was jamming with the BFA cludge we had), so he got a carbine. Playing the part of a regular joe, he should not probably have had that (well, maybe, but not as likely as a BAR or a Garand).

In the end the grog part of me had to let it go. Building a wooden BAR would cost tax payer money, so he got a carbine, only his costume was still a BAR man's stuff, including ammo pouches.

For us, it was good enough.

[Silvio Manuel]

The TD that gets its thirst quenched by the molotov cocktails looks like a definite Marder III to me (gun way back on chassis).

The "half-covered" one that nails Jackson in the church looks like a Marder II (gun up front).

The AFV that Horvath brews up with the bazooka looks to me like a StuG IIIG.

But....does anyone know what Halftracks the Germans use? Both the "recon" HT and the one in Ramelle....the recon one is maybe a 251/1 and the ramelle one a 250/1- with an open top?

I think its kind of dumb that the 1st Tiger shoots an AP round at Mellish's .30cal team. Even dumber is the way the Germans near the Marder III are slowly strolling down the street as if they were admiring the June sky while they should be hearing heavy small arms fire ahead of them.

Even so...it still is excellent to watch. Esp. when the 2nd ("veteran?") tiger goes bouncing over the hill.

[Shipmonkey25]

I'm pretty sure both halftracks seen in the movie are the same one.

[Shipmonkey25]

damn double post

[ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: Shipmonkey25 ]

[ramor]

The roof on the marder was quite possibly a post war conversion. Many nations divided up Germaniy's AFV's after the war and some of these were converted or upgraded. The most unbelievable part of the movie for me was that after the initial landing hundreds of bodies littered Omaha beach and it was still under fire for days. Yet somehow private Ryans death was imediatly reported, that information traveled across the atlantic, was noticed at the war department,delivered, kicked up to general Marshalls office,debated,decided upon, and sent back across the atlantic all in two days time.This process would likely have taken weeks if not months(I assume dogtags were collected and sent home by ship).

[Fieldmarshall]

actually no, if you were paying attemtion you would know it was clearly a Jagdpanther

that blew up the church

-Field

[ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: Fieldmarshall ]

[Slapdragon]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ramor:

The roof on the marder was quite possibly a post war conversion. Many nations divided up Germaniy's AFV's after the war and some of these were converted or upgraded. The most unbelievable part of the movie for me was that after the initial landing hundreds of bodies littered Omaha beach and it was still under fire for days. Yet somehow private Ryans death was imediatly reported, that information traveled across the atlantic, was noticed at the war department,delivered, kicked up to general Marshalls office,debated,decided upon, and sent back across the atlantic all in two days time.This process would likely have taken weeks if not months(I assume dogtags were collected and sent home by ship).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the US war department tried for a one week notice time for deaths in Europe, about 4 times faster than a personal letter could be sent by a unit CO (according to "US Logistics in WW2, US Army Fact File). KIA notices went out by wire. WIA and MIA notices were hung up in pending files in theatre for confirmation on status so that someone would not get a KIA and MIA or WIA letter close together.

Saving Private Ryan was based on a true story, although not as dramatic as the fictional accound. Fritz Niland was missing behind enemy lines when his three bothers were reported killed all the same day (two in D-Day and 1 in Burma). The Burma brother was actually MIA and showed up some time later but the Army thought he was dead.

Army chaplain, Reverend Francis Sampson was telexed by Washington (not by Gen. Marshall, who never heard of it as far as anyone can tell) on D-Day + 8 and told to get Private Niland out and put him on a transport for his home state of New York. The Reverand spent 10 days looking for Niland, finally finding him on D-Day +18.

Some of Niland's story, a bit abbreviated, is told in Ambrose's "Band of Brothers."

Let me also say that Ambrose's story is contested by Niland's family, who claim he was not pulled from combat, and by Army records, who give Niland a medal for charging an enemy foxhole and tossing a grenade into it on D-Day + 6. His family uses the picture shown below as proof. He is the para on the left.

Niland's mother did not get all 3 death notices (one of them in error of course) at the same time, but over a period of days according to the family, which is also contested by Ambrose.

[ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: Slapdragon ]

[Slapdragon]

Niland of course never fought a Tiger tank or defended a bridge, but he was noted for bravery. When his stick of the 506th Parachute Infantry was misdropped something like 25 kilometers away from their drop zones and scattered, he hid out in French farms and fought his way inland, doing a small bit of damage whenever he could. The French underground protected him and were impressed with his combative nature. Most of his stick were either captured, or hunted down and killed, but he survived 18 days behind enemy lines.

[Wesreidau]

Hi, I know of the re-enactment unit that portrayed the SS troops in SPR, they have a website at:

http://www3.mistral.co.uk/sbg1/

[Slapdragon]

Even more impressive is Father Sampson, who was the guy that got Niland out. Sampson fought in three wars as a paratrooper chaplain, was captured in the Bulge, served as a paratrooper from day one in Korea, volunteered for Vietnam in 1965, and then became the highest ranking chaplain in the US Army. He was universally loved by his men because he would perform sacrements and give last rights under fire, did not hesitate to shoulder equipment, and was not a normal "rear area" Chaplain.

Notice his DSC and purple heart. Not many chaplains are ever in a situation harry enough to qualify for a DSC (although many can get bronze stars just for visiting line units, witness Herbert's discussion of chaplains in Soldier.)

Sampson wrote a great book called Look Out Below!, although even with his book their is a small amount of dispute about what he did during Vietnam.

[ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: Slapdragon ]

[Blenheim]

So.... in a realism rating... what mark (1-10) will SPR get? And what is the most realistic WW II film?

[Silvio Manuel]

actually no, if you were paying attemtion you would

know it was clearly a Jagdpanther

that blew up the church

-Field

Fieldmarshall:

Hmmmm...that AFV has at least a semi-open top, since Jackson snipes 1 or 2 of the crew before it rotates all the way around. I'm 99% certain that Jadgpanthers have closed tops, like the Pz IV/70. The gun on it doesn't look like an 88mm either, more like a short 75mm. Whaddya think Field?

[PipBoy]

Hey what was that bangalor thing they used to take out the pillbox (or was it to clear the trench on the other side of their sand hill)? It was a long tube that they shoved some small rocket or mortar round into, I think.

[Madmatt]

Moving this to the more appropriate General Forum.

Madmatt