In the movies they have little notes...

[Deadly Dave]

In the movies at some point a boffin strolls up to the general and hands him a piece of paper with an itelligence report of enemy troops movement etc. men KIA etc.

Theres has been lots of threads re gamey/not gamey recon and radio comm issues and fog of war discussions An option to occurred to me as i drove to work,

one is that if a squad or other move out of radio contact why not have a dramaticaly diminished LOS similar or worse than Crew members, this will have the effect of simulating a radio reporting delay( if they cant see neither can I, so if they take three turns to gather information that they would normaly see in one turn by having greater LOS, it creates an artificial radio/information delay). After all if they are out of radio contact they shouldnt be able to report troop movement to anyone else except between squad members , this will also frustrate the movements of stray infantry that so many consider gamey. Its not a perfect solution but it may be a compromise between those sides who are opposed to gamey /not gamey views

the second thought was if rather than a diminsihed view for out of coms troops then what about no information other than sound icons until the unit gets back into radio contact with HQ whereupon the sound icons appear in the correct position (or last known positions assuming the squad has moved)

You could even have a window note like TCP games reporting enemy activity eg...." Squad E3 reports tank and infantry movement in open ground 300m NE of church building" But not be able to accurately spot it until Radio contact is made

It could get very detailed if you wanted eg if the Platoon HQ got killed you may have to send help to bring back the rest of the platoon as well as collect any information they have gathered a squad without the HQ will have no radio comms and thus reduced LOS making them more vulnerable

would it work?

[Michael Emrys]

One thing to note, squads did not normally carry radios, even in the US army which was otherwise lavishly supplied with them (by WW II standards). They were either in visual contact with their platoon leader or communicated via runners. The radio icon in the unit information box in CM is just a graphic convention.

The thing you are objecting to (if one unit can see an enemy unit, then all friendly units [and the player] become simultaneously aware of it) has been called absolute spotting or borg spotting in the vernacular. It is a matter that BTS has listed as something they want to address in the Great Engine Rewrite in two or three years time.

Michael

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: Michael emrys ]</p>

[Brian]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Michael emrys:

One thing to note, squads did not normally carry radios, even in the US army which was otherwise lavishly supplied with them (by WW II standards). They were either in visual contact with their platoon leader or communicated via runners. The radio icon in the unit information box in CM is just a graphic convention.

<hr></blockquote>

I'm surprised. Why the reliance on visual/runners? Did Americans lose the ability to project their orders vocally?

British units and commanders learnt to "use their balls" when giving orders, projecting their voices across the parade ground. Indeed, one of my favourites stories comes from an associate who was seconded from the Australian Army to the British Army at one point as a platoon commander. The British army now uses platoon nets, with each section commander having a radio. The Australian Army does not. He was forever being told to tone his voice down by his platoon sergeant - he was used to projecting it several hundred metres to control his platoon in battle. He was deafening his section commanders who now heard him via radio.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>

The thing you are objecting to (if one unit can see an enemy unit, then all friendly units [and the player] become simultaneously aware of it) has been called absolute spotting or borg spotting in the vernacular. It is a matter that BTS has listed as something they want to address in the Great Engine Rewrite in two or three years time.

Michael

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: Michael emrys ]<hr></blockquote>

I'd be interested in seeing how they do it. Perhaps one way would be to have the units out of contact, unable to percieve anything outside of a certain range?

[Michael Emrys]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Brian:

Why the reliance on visual/runners? Did Americans lose the ability to project their orders vocally?<hr></blockquote>

No. But there are a couple things to keep in mind about this. One is that the battlefield is a noisy place once the shooting starts and vocal commands might get drowned out for any but the closest troops.

The second is that there may be many occasions when you don't want to be making a lot of noise. Why give away your presence or your intentions?

Then again, on other occasions you might want to make a maximum amount of noise to intimidate the enemy. All depends doesn't it?

But one omnipresent concern is that orders be clear and unambiguous. That's why runners would be sent to squads out of LOS, i.e., who couldn't see what the HQ was doing and therefore couldn't guess what was required of them.

A final case is when a squad has something to report: "There's a company of Grenadiers coming up on my left flank, 300 yards out. Looks like about 80 guys and I think they have a mortar with them." This kind of information is hard to convey by shouting 100 meters or so.

Michael

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: Michael emrys ]</p>