Crews, revisited...BTS please read

[Guest sitzkrieg]

I know this has been brought up before but I have something that might be a new idea for how to solve the problem of crews being used in "gamey" ways (i.e. to draw fire, for recon, etc.)

And yes, I did a search but couldn't find this specific idea.

I think crews should not be allowed to move in a forward direction after they bail out. By that, I mean have them only be able to go toward the friendly map edge or left and right but not toward the enemy map edge. That would prevent an opponent from using the crew of a knocked out vehicle for far-flung suicide recon.

[Maximus]

Recon?

Don't you already know what kncoked out the vehicle in most circumstances?

Besides, I don't think any crew is going to last long if it goes running towards the enemy's side.

[David Aitken]

I seem to remember the concept of not allowing crews to advance being brought up before. I think the answer was – and if not, it should have been – that this would be unrealistic and potentially dangerous. What if the enemy got round behind a vehicle and took it out? The crew would either have to brave enemy crossfire or run straight into their arms.

You may be aware that in CM 1.1b24 the effectiveness of crews was greatly reduced, in that the crew of a knocked-out vehicle will be shaken or panicked and have 'low' ammunition. I don't think they need to be crippled any further. There is no point in modelling crews at all unless they can help out in dire situations, so the way they are just now is fine.

David

[Guest jaja]

I heard they are worth lots of points, so doing anything but hiding them is counterproductive.

[Guest sitzkrieg]

Thanks for the responses.

I figured that idea way have been brought up before but I couldn't find it doing a search.

The main reason I thought about it was because in a TCP/IP game yesterday, my opponent was using his crew from a KO'ed tank for recon. But, if like jaja stated, they are worth a lot of points, then I guess it's my opponents loss if he uses them in such a way.

Sort of pisses me off when someone pulls out a tactic like that.

Let this one die since it has already been discussed before (probably to death!).

[Pilsudski's Raider]

I think the crew's are worth their experience in operations games...if your vet crew survives after it's tank knocked out, you want the crew return with their repaired tank and continue in the next game of your operation. You do not want to get your best tank crew killed off in the first game of a 6 game operation otherwise you are stuck trying to win the subsequent games with less experienced crews.

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"Whoever had the choice, would choose an eagle's nest on the cliffs in place of a home. May he know how to sleep, though his eyes be red from the thunder, and listen to the cries of the wild spirits in the murmur of the pines.-That is how I lived."

[Tiger]

Moving a bailed crew like this is in no way gamey. How can someone moving crews about have any affect on your battle plan?

Bailed crews should not last very long anyway in the face of solid tactics, especially in view of how weak they are in the new ...24 patch. The penalty in losing a bailed crew and what to do with them after they bail out is their owner's decision to make.

Personally I often send bailed crews to the rear; sometimes if they are in a quiet part of the battlefield I will have them look around the area for me; if in the heat of a tight battle yes I will move them forward with the infantry. Less likely now with the patch which is as it should be but it is my decision to make as they are my units. If it bothers you then shoot them. If you don't have anything to shoot them with, tough.

This is similiar to the "flag rush" debate where people say it is gamey to rush a flag near the end of the battle. My argument to this being gamey was/is that if you can not stop an assault on the flag(s), then you did not control the flag in question in the first place, regardless of what turn it is.

With bailed crews moving "forward" as being gamey, the same idea applies. If you can not stop or intefere with the bailed crew, then you don't control that part of the battlefield anyway.

jmtcw,

john

[Guest sitzkrieg]

Hoped this thread would die. It hasn't so I'll add one more response.

Tiger:

I agree with everything you've said. I too believe so called "gamey" tactics can be soundly defeated by solid tactics our your own part. My issue is using crews to draw fire for the specific purpose of plotting artillery fire and/or to get hiding units to open up to find your defenses in a suicide recon, as was the case here.

Guess this won't be fixed completely until relative spotting is implemented.

Have not updated to 24 beta yet when we were playing this scenario, still on 23, so maybe it's not an issue.

Not crying about something someone did, I was just wondering if eliminating crews forward movement would be possible in general. From the response I have got, I guess that answer is "no".

[David Aitken]

Well said Tiger. sitzkrieg – I wouldn't hold your breath for relative spotting. =) That's another debate, of course, and I don't want to restart it here, but personally I'm not sure whether it has any place in a game. There is a thin line between realism and playability. Anyway, yes, b24 does make bailed crews far less useful. And as jaja points out, crews represent the equipment they're trained to use, and are thus invaluable and not very sensible suicide recon troops. =)

David