Wolfe Posted May 17, 2000 Share Posted May 17, 2000 Reading over in: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/004397.html about a tank w/ a damaged gun retreating into a corner, I had the same thing in the last VoT game I played. The AI moved both a 105 tank (whose gun I knew I had damaged) as well as the 76 (whose gun I didn't realize I had damaged [woohoo! ]) into the corner for the duration of the game. Would these damaged (but not destroyed or abandoned) vehicles be able to span scenarios within an Operation? If so, would their main guns be fixed? I'd hate to think I would need to go hunt them down to prevent them from returning in the next part of an Operation. I counted a total of 7 ricochets off the front of my Panther from Shermans moving up, taking 1 shot, and popping smoke before my Panther could wheel its turret around and return fire. That's one nasty AI. And one tough tank. In another game, I had 4 shots from 'Zook teams at ~50m bounce off the frontal armor of the Panther without doing any damage. Unlucky? Or is this supposed to happen? In yet another game, I put the Panther so it was sitting proudly on a slight incline with its turret and hull exposed. After a Sherm got a 1-shot-1-kill [Grrr], with the match ending in a draw, I retested by doing the same thing over and over a few times. Whenever the Sherms got a 'lower hull hit', it would invariably kill the Panther. From previous threads, I know that CM doesn't model belly armor, so with the supposed strong frontal armor of the Panther, what place exactly are the Sherms hitting? In a related vein, it would be interesting to see an illustrated diagram of all the different places a tank can be hit in CM. A possible CMHQ POTD? When my Sherms in CE got low on HE ammo, they started shooting *smoke* at the enemy infantry. A new tactic that I'm not aware of? The German mortars in VoT sometimes do the same thing. And they ignore my orders to stop firing the smoke. Ok, I'll stop rambling now. - Chris [This message has been edited by Wolfe (edited 05-16-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted May 17, 2000 Share Posted May 17, 2000 It hit the Front Lower Hull... On the Panther the front hull makes and inverted V shape.. It hit the lower portion of this V. I lost two panthers to Sherman 75s hitting that portion of the hull in a single game. It is HIGHLY VULNERABLE and another good reason for keeping your Panther hull-down (or at least angled downwards on a slope). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted May 17, 2000 Share Posted May 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolfe: Reading over in: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/004397.html I counted a total of 7 ricochets off the front of my Panther from Shermans moving up, taking 1 shot, and popping smoke before my Panther could wheel its turret around and return fire. That's one nasty AI. And one tough tank. In another game, I had 4 shots from 'Zook teams at ~50m bounce off the frontal armor of the Panther without doing any damage. Unlucky? Or is this supposed to happen? [This message has been edited by Wolfe (edited 05-16-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> When I played VoT (as the Allies), I had the good fortune to have aready taken control of the victory condition hill where the Panther comes in. While the Panther was busy trying to blast my infantry already on the hill, I drove a Sherman suddenly up over the brink of the hill, at the same time that I got 2 bazooka teams into the woods on the hill within @100-120 mm from the Panther. The Sherman fired, and immobilized the Panther, one of the bazooka teams fired, and hit the frontal armor of the Panther, achieving nothing, but the other bazooka team, who had a bit more of a flank shot managed to pierce the turret. All of this at fairly short range. Panthers seem fairly tough, and I was glad not to have to engage this one at any longer distances! ------------------ After witnessing exceptional bravery from his Celtic mercenaries, Alexander the Great called them to him and asked if there was anything they feared. They told him nothing, except that the sky might fall on their heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted May 17, 2000 Share Posted May 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolfe: Reading over in: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/004397.html I counted a total of 7 ricochets off the front of my Panther from Shermans moving up, taking 1 shot, and popping smoke before my Panther could wheel its turret around and return fire. That's one nasty AI. And one tough tank. In another game, I had 4 shots from 'Zook teams at ~50m bounce off the frontal armor of the Panther without doing any damage. Unlucky? Or is this supposed to happen? [This message has been edited by Wolfe (edited 05-16-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> When I played VoT (as the Allies), I had the good fortune to have aready taken control of the victory condition hill where the Panther comes in. While the Panther was busy trying to blast my infantry already on the hill, I drove a Sherman suddenly up over the brink of the hill, at the same time that I got 2 bazooka teams into the woods on the hill within @100-120 mm from the Panther. The Sherman fired, and immobilized the Panther, one of the bazooka teams fired, and hit the frontal armor of the Panther, achieving nothing, but the other bazooka team, who had a bit more of a flank shot managed to pierce the turret. All of this at fairly short range. Panthers seem fairly tough, and I was glad not to have to engage this one at any longer distances! ------------------ After witnessing exceptional bravery from his Celtic mercenaries, Alexander the Great called them to him and asked if there was anything they feared. They told him nothing, except that the sky might fall on their heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TOBRUK Posted May 17, 2000 Share Posted May 17, 2000 I am more concerned about the last point that Wolfe raises. It would be nice if BTS could weigh in on this 'smoke' problem, which seems to be a new development unique to the gold demo. I, too, have had shermans in CE begin firing 'smoke' instead of HE, even though they had plenty of HE left. In order to soften up defending troops on the hill, I would order HE fired at clearly visible, legitemate infantry targets. The shermans wold then fire one HE round (sometimes) then immediately revert to firing smoke. Since I wanted to fire HE to soften up targets, and wanted to save smoke for the final assault, this becomes a problem. Grateful for any comments...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted May 18, 2000 Author Share Posted May 18, 2000 Fionn wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It hit the Front Lower Hull...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh!, ok, thanks. Now I understand. I had thought the game just broke it down into front, rear, and sides of the hull. Cool. And I just noticed a 'side upper hull hit' against a Sherm in CE. Don't recall ever getting a 'side lower hull hit', but then again maybe I just haven't been paying attention. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bobb Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 I have experenced the "If you got 'em smoke 'em!" thing too. I was very much surprised to see a position start smoking up for no good appearant reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TOBRUK Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 Hi BTS. Brought this to the top again to see if we could get a comment about the smoke from you. Thanks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 I'm a little unclear on what the problem is, but here's one thing: your units pay attention to how much ammo they have. When one type starts to run low, they begin to consider using other types, maybe against different targets, figuring they'd better save those last few rounds of the one (now scarce) type for when it's REALLY important. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolfe: And I just noticed a 'side upper hull hit' against a Sherm in CE. Don't recall ever getting a 'side lower hull hit'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have. It usually comes up as a "Track" hit, and ends with an immobilization. Oh, and I've also seen the 75mm pak40 bounce shells off the front of a Sherman --- at long range, that is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Username: Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn: It hit the Front Lower Hull... On the Panther the front hull makes and inverted V shape.. It hit the lower portion of this V. I lost two panthers to Sherman 75s hitting that portion of the hull in a single game. It is HIGHLY VULNERABLE and another good reason for keeping your Panther hull-down (or at least angled downwards on a slope).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I guess you are refering to the lower glacis on the Panther. While it was less armored than the upper hull(60mm vs 80mm) it was angled downward. This has the beneficial effect since AP projectiles travel on a parabolic arc. This in effect, INCREASES the effective "slope" of the armor. So unless the firing gun is very high velocity and at close range and very low to the gound, this part of the Panther is NOT highly vulnerable. It is also a "smaller" target as "seen" by an incoming plunging shell. The Germans reduced this plate to 50mm in later versions so it couldnt have been that big a problem. The Panther had bigger design defects with its turret front and generally thin sides and overall excessive size. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts