colton Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 has anybody seen men fly in the air from explosions yet because i have'nt and i was just wondering if they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by colton: has anybody seen men fly in the air from explosions yet because i have'nt and i was just wondering if they do<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No they don't, that is the sort of eyecandy (like man holding in their entrails) that BTS was not interested in putting in, methinks. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devils Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 No, but I have seen prone men stand up before they die if they are the last man in the squad to be hit. A death dance? Kinda weird. Like they are rising up to Valhalla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 Men don't fly in the air, but I experienced a situation yesterday in which they certainly would have. I was playing a scenario as the Germans in which the Americans had some pretty big artillery, probably 155mm. I had a line abreast flank of 5 tanks and a platoon of infantry w/support and this 155mm barrage came down and totally decimated my left flank, knocking out 3 tanks, (brewing a Panther, BTW) immobalizing 1 and killing most of my support weapons and mauling a squad of infantry. ------------------ Be sure and check out my texture mods on CMHQ. Dave "Ol' Blood & Maximus Butticus" Molinarolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 Men in Combat Mission are not modelled individually. The three-man 'squad' you see is effectively a 'marker' to indicate a squad - it does not represent the men themselves. As such, you are not seeing the true action of the battlefield. Combat Mission is a tactical simulator, not an action game. As Andreas says (thankyou Andreas, have a sweetie), this kind of eye candy is irrelevant to the game. David ------------------ There's a splinter in your eye, and it reads REACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grognerd_Fogman Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 I think I saw an entrail holding ceremony once...or maybe it was late an the Jim Beam/Pepsi combo skewered my hallucination process...o well, back to dying in PBEM... ------------------ Thanks for Athskin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitting Duck Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 David said (paraphrasing Andreas)- "...this kind of eye candy is irrelevant to the game." I'm not so sure it's irrelevant is it? Perhaps it's irrelevant to the 'strategy' part of the game. Then so too the exploding buildings, shaking camera option, flying debris, etc. Yes? For me, these things really set CM apart from other strategy games. I've played some other games in the same 'strategy' vein (TOP, PITS, TACOps) and really like the 3D and eye/ear candy that CM has to offer (in addition to the strategy part). What are MODS if not eye candy? Except maybe the GRID (whoops - won't go there). I am constantly amazed by the detail...and the amount of effort that so many people have put in to making it look...cool. Perhaps it's the fact that the request is for people or parts of people (entrails?) to fly around rather than inanimate stuff? What about the ear-candy in the same vein? You know, the complaints/screams about arms and injury... I dunno. I think the more realistic detail BTS put in, the better! [This message has been edited by Sitting Duck (edited 08-18-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 Sitting Duck wrote: > I'm not so sure it's irrelevant is it? [...] Then so too the exploding buildings, shaking camera option, flying debris, etc. Well, as it stands, bits of men flying around would be irrelevant, because individual men are not modelled. Until CM models individual men, sorry, no entrails - and that is unlikely to happen anytime soon. David ------------------ There's a splinter in your eye, and it reads REACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitting Duck Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 David said - "Well, as it stands, bits of men flying around would be irrelevant, because individual men are not modelled. Until CM models individual men, sorry, no entrails..." I thought individual men were modeled in the underlying sim calculations, to some degree at least. For instance, when I look at the display after selecting a team, it shows me how many men are hurt and how many are not. Probably an abstraction, too... That's probably not so important is it? You have pointed out that the graphics are just an abstraction of the underlying simulation. <a href=http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/008554-2.html>http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/008554-2.html</a> When those 155's are raining down, I like seeing those 3 little guys running, diving to the ground, etc. (Specially if those 3 little guys were mowing down my guys just before the sky opened up on them. Ha!) Probably not much of a stretch to add a flying man when an explosion causes a casualty (like maybe when the 3 man graphic becomes a 2 man graphic - one guy goes flying). David said - "...and that is unlikely to happen anytime soon." Yah. Do you think a 'vote' would help (as opposed to a poll)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 Sitting duck, there will be no flying men, no gore and no blood fountains. This is not a FPS, but a wargame. Ever spoiled blood on an ASL gameboard when a squad was DX? I guess not. The way BTS balanced the underlying model and the graphical representation is right on target. I do not want, that Charles even spend one single minute for a "flying man". I suggest "Commandos" or "Behind Enemy Lines"...nice games AND flying men Fred ------------------ "I got signals, I got readings, in front and behind of us!" - PFC Hudson on LV-426 mission Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fred: The way BTS balanced the underlying model and the graphical representation is right on target. I do not want, that Charles even spend one single minute for a "flying man". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That coming from a man who obviously enjoyed Alien II must mean something, not sure what, but it must! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Fred's Sig: "I got signals, I got readings, in front and behind of us!" - PFC Hudson on LV-426 mission<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sitting Duck, please note that both David (have a lolly David, there's a good boy, now sit and stop drooling on the Gerbil!) and I qualified our statements with 'sort of' and 'kind of'. I completely agree that not all eye-candy is irrevelant. Blood splatter gore is. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 Andreas, Ich trinke Bier... Wenn du mal nach Hamburg kommst... If you ever come to Hamburg... Fred ------------------ "I got signals, I got readings, in front and behind of us!" - PFC Hudson on LV-426 mission [This message has been edited by Fred (edited 08-18-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fred: Ich trinke Bier... Wenn du mal nach Hamburg kommst... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That makes two of us - I'll get back to you next time I visit my relatives near Hannover and have a day to spare. My favourite line by Hudson was when he shouted in the squeaky dubbing voice: 'They're everywhere, we're all going to die' ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 Andreas, just mail me and feel yourself invited for one (or maybe even two) beers And a cheers to our fav marine! Fred ------------------ "I got signals, I got readings, in front and behind of us!" - PFC Hudson on LV-426 mission Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fred: And a cheers to our fav marine! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hooray for Hudson! A model marine if ever there was one... When I was a taxi-driver (night-time) in Kassel, I always wore my lucky jacket with a Nostromo badge on the shoulder. That, and playing either the soundtrack to 'Diva', 'Sisters of Mercy' or 'New Model Army' made my customers think I was weird. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted August 19, 2000 Share Posted August 19, 2000 Germanboy wrote: > That [...] made my customers think I was weird. Ah, so the CM forums will seem just like old times, eh Andreas? Golly, I've just realised... > That coming from a man who obviously enjoyed Alien II I don't know many people who enjoyed "Alien II". Aliens wasn't all that bad, though. =) David ------------------ There's a splinter in your eye, and it reads REACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 19, 2000 Share Posted August 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: I don't know many people who enjoyed "Alien II". Aliens wasn't all that bad, though. =) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Don't know many Germans then, I guess? The German title IIRC was indeed 'Alien II' - or it may just be my memory playing tricks on me. Unfortunately our country persists in the atrocious habit of dubbing and renaming, something for which the executives of the movie companies will have a special place in hell, right next to the lawyers. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitting Duck Posted August 19, 2000 Share Posted August 19, 2000 Fred said - "This is not a FPS, but a wargame. Ever spoiled blood on an ASL gameboard when a squad was DX? I guess not..." Ouch! OK Fred! And nope...no blood spoiled on the ASL board, ever! My mum always made me and my friends clean up after our games...had enough trouble convincing her to let me play all the time without stinkin' up the joint! Andreas said - "...I completely agree that not all eye-candy is irrevelant. Blood splatter gore is." Yes! I agree... I was trying to explore the reasons for the objection to explosions sending men flying through the air. To get a better understanding, I asked some (slightly) rhetorical questions comparing animate and inanimate debris (eye candy) and animate and inanimate sound effects (ear candy). David also mentioned CM's visual modeling of men as an issue. Eye Candy Comparison Seeing a house explode into pieces is one (cool) thing. Seeing a man explode into pieces is fundamentally different. Eye Candy - Ear Candy Comparison But if that's true, then it seems that the people yelling about injury ("my arm!") could be the 'sort of' ear candy that is like the 'kind of' eye candy you, Fred and David were objecting to. I think that seeing a man fly in the air as a result of an explosion in CM falls on the acceptable side of visual detail, partly because of the abstraction. But, I'm not as certain how I feel about the sound effects of a man yelling about injury. It's borderline in my judgment because it's not abstracted... I didn't think game modeling was really the issue. However, I think I see David's point. I just think the graphics are sufficiently abstracted from the underlying game modeling to allow for explosions to send a man flying through the air. To me, an explosion sending one of those little guys flying through the air is the same as seeing them bounce around from an arty volley, twist their heads side-to-side scanning for OPFOR, or when 1 of them goes missing because of causualties incurred. Perhaps I didn't express that well enough in my original responses? No matter...not trying to pick a fight and sorry for my not being clearer. Fred said - ""there will be no flying men, no gore and no blood fountains. "I do not want, that Charles even spend one single minute for a 'flying man'." OK! I was more interested in the discussion of *why* rather than a getting some action out of Charles. The developers will do whatever they think best... Fred said - "I suggest 'Commandos' or 'Behind Enemy Lines'...nice games AND flying men..." NO time for those games right now, but I appreciate the suggestion, thanks! Got too many CM PBEM's going on for my own good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted August 19, 2000 Share Posted August 19, 2000 Germanboy wrote: > Unfortunately our country persists in the atrocious habit of dubbing and renaming Spiel uber, mann, spiel uber! =) Can't get enough of those old warfilms where you've got Americans speaking English, and Germans speaking... English, but it's not actually, it's German... and then you have the Americans and the Germans speaking to each other, the former in English and the latter in English (German). Or would that be English (English)? Ummm... ------------------ There's a splinter in your eye, and it reads REACT [This message has been edited by David Aitken (edited 08-18-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 19, 2000 Share Posted August 19, 2000 Sitting Duck - no problems here at all. I think the difference between having BSG and someone shouting 'My arm' are that the latter is sort of necessary as a voice cue that someone somewhere on the battlefield is taking fire. I use it a lot that way. So it actually conveys information. And I pretend it is abstracted. Not logical, I know, but still... David - ve vill newer rest until ze puny might of ze English is totally under our control - Ja! Finally, ven ve take you ower, ze busses in zis country vill run on time. Zat is ze secret masterplan harharahar!!! Talking about those Germans? ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted August 19, 2000 Share Posted August 19, 2000 Germanboy wrote: > Talking about those Germans? Robert Shaw never even bothered with the random Z's. He obviously had no concept the language. ------------------ There's a splinter in your eye, and it reads REACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 19, 2000 Share Posted August 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: Robert Shaw never even bothered with the random Z's. He obviously had no concept the language.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Let's face it, he just wasn't an actor at all. Your illustrations, do you draw some of your inspiration from Manga? (I am serious, and not trying to insult you or anything) ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted August 19, 2000 Share Posted August 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: Unfortunately our country persists in the atrocious habit of dubbing and renaming, something for which the executives of the movie companies will have a special place in hell, right next to the lawyers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Friend of mine, when he was a lad, lived in Germany because his Dad was stationed there in the army. He saw the Wizard of Oz dubbed into German. Told me he was never sure why it was so horrible, but the whole production took on this surreal, evil-Grimm-Brother-fairytale aura. Said he used to wake up with nightmares, and couldn't explain them to his folks without sounding crazy. Says the munchkins were the worst. ------------------ After witnessing exceptional bravery from his Celtic mercenaries, Alexander the Great called them to him and asked if there was anything they feared. They told him nothing, except that the sky might fall on their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeydz Posted August 19, 2000 Share Posted August 19, 2000 Another thing about men flying thru the air. Isn't that more of a hollywood effect than anything else. The most times that I can remember men "flying" because of an explosion comes from action films from Stallone, Arnold, or Van Damme. I think the true effects would be to gruesome to tactfully represent on screen. Even if we get to a 1 for 1 representation of men on the battlefield, I think that the current method of the fallen soldier just appearing at the spot would suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 19, 2000 Share Posted August 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mikeydz: The most times that I can remember men "flying" because of an explosion comes from action films from Stallone, Arnold, or Van Damme. .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What do you try to say? These are not realistic? (shock horror, falls over, gasping for air, hyper-ventilating...) You, you can not be serious!!!!? ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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