PvK Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 I just foolishly sent a FO forward, ordered an attack which started falling, but the FO got spotted and was killed after a few seconds, and only a couple more rounds came down and the artillery attack stopped promptly after his death. Why? I wanted at least fire until the end of the turn. Now all my arty support from that unit is gone. It seems to me that ideally (in the absence of being able to order the actual number of rounds, as suggested by someone else on another thread), a random portion of the spotter's available ammo would continue to fire, perhaps with more than usual drift, up to possibly the full ammo left. On another note, my human PBEM opponent reported that as he spotted my FO, he was given the info (with FOW on) of the type of artillery that the FO was assigned, which we both agreed made no sense at all, unless it's only a 1/1000 chance that some yank who spoke German overheard the FO for some reason mentioning it, and the info was immediately relayed to the commanding officer... PvK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paullus Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 Actually, it makes sense for the artillery to stop with the death of the FO. The FO is in constant contact with the artillery battery, changing location of fire, correcting short, etc. When the FO is lost, so is that contact. No artillery commander is going to continue a bombardment without knowing what he is shooting at (especially since there is always a chance the good guys could get caught if they advance). On the second point, I've never been able to tell what kind of artillery a FO controls (on the other side). Even when the scenario ends all I see is that the enemy unit was a FO (not what that FO controlled). Back to the first point, one reason the RAF was unable (or unwilling) to support the Arnhem operation with CAS was their insistence on FO on the ground and a clear marking of targets, which was impossible due to the radio problem at Arnhem. Even though the roads in the area were crammed with German vehicles, hardly any attacks were made by the RAF against them, due to the lack of FO support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfinder Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 paullus is correct. as a former us artillery officer, if contact is lost with the party who called in the fire, the mission is terminated or no continuance of mission in that particular area can go forward. we wouldn't any "friendly fire" now would we ?? ------------------ unca pathy will show ya the path, if only he could find it himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 PvK said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It seems to me that ideally (in the absence of being able to order the actual number of rounds, as suggested by someone else on another thread), a random portion of the spotter's available ammo would continue to fire, perhaps with more than usual drift, up to possibly the full ammo left.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I disagree. The lack of being able to (actually, forced to) specify the number of rounds you want is an abstraction. I do not think it's a good idea to cover up for a problem caused by 1 abstraction by introducing a new abstraction. Why would a random number of rounds after FO death be an abstraction? Because in real life, it works like this: First, the FO goes through the adjustment process to get the rounds where he wants them. Then he calls for a certain number of rounds of FFE. After shooting this number of rounds, the arty unit then tells the FO, "rounds complete, request end of mission." IOW, the fire mission is still going on even though the guns are silent. It's up to the FO observe the results and either end the mission or call for more fire. The point is that while the FFE is falling, there's generally no communication between the FO and the off-board unit, although sometimes the FO may call another adjustment or checkfire during this time. But the default situation is that the arty unit is NOT expecting to hear anything from the FO during the FFE, only afterwards. So if the FO gets killed during the FFE, the arty unit won't know and will continue shooting per the last instructions received. Only when the arty unit asks for end of mission and gets only static will it notice something wrong. Therefore, as long as CM continues to have open-ended fire missions, IMHO it should keep itself internally consistent and shut them off immediately upon FO death. I don't like this, but I think it's better than adding something else that is even less realistic. ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PvK Posted July 14, 2000 Author Share Posted July 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bullethead: I disagree. ... ... So if the FO gets killed during the FFE, the arty unit won't know and will continue shooting per the last instructions received. Only when the arty unit asks for end of mission and gets only static will it notice something wrong. Therefore, as long as CM continues to have open-ended fire missions, IMHO it should keep itself internally consistent and shut them off immediately upon FO death. I don't like this, but I think it's better than adding something else that is even less realistic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My understanding of the real-life situation mirrors yours. However I don't see how you get that conclusion. If the FO hadn't died, the arty would have fired at least to the end of the turn no matter what I did. Doesn't make any sense to me for it to stop immediately. Maybe it'd stop after a minute or a few minutes. I don't think the "friendly fire" case really holds up, given the one-minute turns - an enemy small target area isn't liable to become friendly-held DURING a few-minute bombardment! Also, I don't believe the WW2-era FO was there saying "ok, another round, now another a few meters west... now ack!" I also don't think a battery would, after having just received an order for say 24 rounds on target, to stop at the moment they heard their FO buy the farm. I think they'd probably realize they best they could do was hit the confirmed target pretty hard, at least on scale of a few minutes at most. PvK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ciril Posted July 14, 2000 Share Posted July 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PvK: On another note, my human PBEM opponent reported that as he spotted my FO, he was given the info (with FOW on) of the type of artillery that the FO was assigned, which we both agreed made no sense at all, unless it's only a 1/1000 chance that some yank who spoke German overheard the FO for some reason mentioning it, and the info was immediately relayed to the commanding officer... PvK <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This seems especially off because when you kill an unknown type unit you can't find out the exact type when you get near the body. In this case the spotter's full data was acquired just before he got killed (it was an infantry charge). Obviously I am PvK's human opponent. Ciril Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigAlMoho Posted September 28, 2000 Share Posted September 28, 2000 To me, it just seems disrespectful to cut off the fire mission that the spotter just gave his life to call in. Thanks, Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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