PvK Posted August 19, 2000 Share Posted August 19, 2000 This is in patch 1.03. --- Issue 1: The manual makes a point about Sherman tank armor being low quality and thus getting an 85% rating. StuG and StuH get higher ratings, but Panthers and JagdPanthers get 85% armor ratings - surely the Germans did not cut corners on Panther armor, no? --- Issue 2: Panther Ausf G is shown as having a shot trap. The Ausf G mantlet was designed to eliminate the shot trap found on the Ausf D and Ausf A. Wouldn't it make sense to take this rating off the Panther G? --- Issue 3: Sherman AP ammo (not counting the already-mentioned often-very-generous supply of special rounds) for the 75mm seems to be generously rated. It seems not to include the weaker variety of APC ammo, and the ratings for zero-degree penetration seem considerably higher than trigonometry would suggest. Perhaps this is an intentional statement on penetration effects. However it seems to tip the scales for much German armor, such as StuG/H, late-war Pz IV hull, and (not included in CM) Pz III (late-war), which were all about 80mm. At most ranges encountered in CM, Sherman 75mm firing normal ammo, with these generous ratings, will usually have no problem at all with 80mm near-vertical plate - the Germans may as well have not bothered to bolt on the extra 30mm. My understanding had been that in fact, 80mm was about the point where you could hope to stop most 75mm Sherman hits. Given that these are some of the most common AFV's to meet each other (75mm Sherman vs. Pz III/IV/StuG), it seems like an important issue. I'd always thought the Germans added the armor to counter the T34 and Sherman guns with some success, and that the US 76mm upgrades were much-needed. In CM, the Sherman 75mm AP is no problem until you run into a Panther or Tiger or something. PvK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted August 19, 2000 Share Posted August 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PvK: This is in patch 1.03. Issue 1: The manual makes a point about Sherman tank armor being low quality and thus getting an 85% rating. StuG and StuH get higher ratings, but Panthers and JagdPanthers get 85% armor ratings - surely the Germans did not cut corners on Panther armor, no? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hi Peter. I dont know how BTS determined their values, the Panther armor was defintly of good quality. The quality o German plate did deteriorate as the war went on BTS mat be atempting to model that. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Issue 2: Panther Ausf G is shown as having a shot trap. The Ausf G mantlet was designed to eliminate the shot trap found on the Ausf D and Ausf A. Wouldn't it make sense to take this rating off the Panther G? --- <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The Ausf G early production run had the standard D/A mantlet with its inherent shot trap. In Sept 1944 the Germans began producing all G's with the new 'chin' mantlet, that effectivley eliminated the trap, the 2 Ausf. G's modeled in CM represent this with an early & a late model. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Issue 3: Given that these are some of the most common AFV's to meet each other (75mm Sherman vs. Pz III/IV/StuG), it seems like an important issue. I'd always thought the Germans added the armor to counter the T34 and Sherman guns with some success, and that the US 76mm upgrades were much-needed. In CM, the Sherman 75mm AP is no problem until you run into a Panther or Tiger or something. PvK<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The 75mm Sherman actualy stood up well to the PzKpfw IV lang & Stug, they could all kill each other at standard battle ranges,it was the Panther & Tiger that forced the 76mm issue. The Germans did add xtra plates externaly to the DFP & of the PzKpfw IV F2/G & to the frontal aspect on Stugs. This generaly increased both's frontal armor to 80mms. Stug crews did add an plate generaly around the Drivers visor and opposite side, as well as using concrrete etc. The Germans with the Ausf H began produceing the PzKpfw IV standard with an 80mm plate. The later Stug III & Stug IV were also produced with a standard 80mm plate which eliminated the need for the add on armor. Regards, John Waters ------ "Make way evil, I'm armed to the teeth and packing a hamster!" [This message has been edited by PzKpfw 1 (edited 08-19-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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