maxm2 Posted May 17, 2000 Share Posted May 17, 2000 To start out, I think most of the people I "know" from this forum are doing an excellent job promoting our beloved game in doing reviews and responses to reviews on other web sites. But I also see some very negative stuff at times, and want to suggest that trashing the intelligence and judgement of people who don't "love" CM and instantly grasp all of its many wonders is very counter-productive to good PR for the game. When I see fanaticism about other games (or anything else, for that matter) expressed on the net, it makes me wonder about how biased the supporters might be in all their judgements. It also leaves a bad taste about the product being promoted through an attack on critics. That's irrational, but we ain't the most rational species. In particular, when the issue is using a valid standard of comparison (such as why CM's graphics aren't as good as the latest first person shooter, or why the AI is "only" better than any other wargame), it doesn't help to dismiss using the wrong yardstick as the ranting of an idiot. When I first saw CM's graphics in POTDs on CMHQ many months ago, without knowing anything else about the game, I was put off. And BTS obviously knew they could look better, because a lot of improving was done since then. Yet even back then there were still posts on the forum tearing into people who dared to suggest the graphics were not perfectly fine. CM still doesn't look like the best FPS games. And nailing someone who is disappointed will not make them think: "Of course! How stupid I am!" But patiently explaining why an FPS standard is not a good one to use with CM, and urging doubters to just try a few scenarios where they get down in the middle of things, will go a long way to get people reading the reviews and the dialogues to try it, and will avoid a "CM and its attack dog fanatics" rep which will not do the game any good. I don't want my opinion concerning CM to be dismissed on other forums or in other venues because I'm assumed to be "one of those CM crazies." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted May 17, 2000 Share Posted May 17, 2000 It's all in the goodness of sychophantism. But I understand what you're saying. When I write a review on "another" site. I don't trash other people's opinion, I just sate what CM is all about. I usually compare CM to other wargames of the past. And I mention the complex armour penetration algorithms. The "pretty" accurate 3D models of the vehicles. By "pretty" I mean, pretty decent and convincing with the relatively low polygon count. I also mention the turn-based/simultaneous resolution phases. Also, I mention the immersion factor in which you get with the game as compared to previous wargames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 I have to agree with Max here. A LOT of people seem to think that if someone doesn't like CM it is ok to slam them as idiots or something... Quite simply the VAST majority of gamers won't like CM because they're not "into" this type of game. Calling them names because of it simply makes them into enemies and guys who will go out of their way to badmouth CM. IF on the other hand you simply say " Different strokes for different folks" and make sure that you understand that the reason they don't like CM is because it isn't "their" type of game then you will gain a lot of kudos on those fora and won't incite them to snipe forever. I don't much like FPSes but I wouldn't bitch-slap someone who did. It gains nothing. Point out to them the technical issues and then say that they seem to be more into FPSes than wargames and leave it at that. Sycophancy is NO excuse for actually doing more harm than good simply because you can't stop yourself from bitching out people who simply don't like CM. Of course, if someone comes onto the forum and is trying to lie about CM ( e.g. claiming research is wrong etc etc) then you should give it to them with both barrels, reload and fire again. However, if it just isn't their type of game then you do MUCH more damage than good by blasting them. I've heard of CC and SP gamers who have been blasted by people on this forum simply because they prefer CC or SP to CM.. I DO think both those games are inferior BUT there IS an overlap in markets between CC, SP and CM.. IF you blast someone who is just expressing an opinion instead of trying to educate them THEN that guy will never buy CM and will bitch about it forever.. On the other hand if you just are reasonable then it goes much better. Being all humorous about "sycophancy" etc is no excuse for harming the product you are trying to extol. To be honest it'd be much better if people who are putting down others on other fora would simply not post at all. It is EXTREMELY destructive and I'm hearing a lot of wargamers complaining about the conduct of some people from here to me in private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Hehe well I called a guy (named anonymous) a twit for giving CM 1 vote outta five _ But i hardly think thats flaming a guy - I also said I like FPS in on the same post Had the guy bothered to put a reason for trashing CM _ I may not have called him a twit Although thats highly unlikey cause giving this game only 1 vote is absurd whether its your cup of tea or not ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Well, I think I called the guy who did give CM a 1 on Versiontracker a Dork on this forum, but certainly not there. Reason for that is that there was no explanation given at all, and it was anonymous. I have no problem with someone not liking CM - I know lots of people who are not at all into wargames, the reasoning by a friend's dad being the best (he is a German veteran senior sergeant who fought in Italy until the surrender): "I don't need wargames, I had all the war I need in my life." But humour aside - Fionn and max have a point. There is nothing to be gained by unreasoned sycophancy outside of the posts in which Madmatt announces an update to CMHQ. Let's keep it a bit more sedated outside this forum (and maybe inside as well). There is a simple rule - what would you think if someone treated you to the language you treat them to. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mch Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 I will say that I feel that an apology is owed to W.B.Wilder...Seems like he always got harassed whenever he showed up around here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 well mch I said tha along time ago but I was chastized for it ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Just for the record, we agree with Fionn. We love having loyal and passionate followers, but sometimes that can be seen as negative. Apple learned this the hard way. Its supports kept the company alive and also at the same time a niche player. I know how one can get caught up in that way back when it was Mac vs. DOS/Windows 3.1 Anyhoo, just identify where the person is coming from. If it isn't from a sympathetic gaming interest, just agree to disagree and move on. As for Mr. 1outof5, we expected as much In his world things are Binary. One error and you are bad. Needless to say I don't think he is a very happy person in the depths of his soul (and even told him that last year). Annoying to see, and yes it is about as relevant to reality as Peace On Earth, but nothing much we can do about it. I know for a fact none of us can change his inner being. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 I was enjoying SP on my old 486 until I heard about CM on the SP Forum. I read about Steve and Charles had to say about their Company and the CM Game. That weekend I bought a P3/500 so I could play the CM Demo. I consider that the best money I spent since my wifes wedding ring. Today I have SPWAW and CM on my hard drive. It's funny, the two games never bicker at one another. I never hear my CM Demo crow about 3D immerson to my poor hex based SPWAW. And SP doesn't brag about all the countries, years, units that CM will never have. They are there for my pleasure and to satisfy my Wargaming thirst. Should I love one more? Can I be swept away by the new wave in wargaming and still enjoy a great old game so beautifully restored? When I speak to what CM offers to my fellow SP gamers it is in hopes that I can share with them the Promise CM holds. I hope that gamers will at least look into CM. I don't think me throwing stones helps get the message out, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Charles, Is there any chance of adding in "bitching code" in the Gold which can detect if any hex-based wargames are on the guy's computer? I really think we should make CM bitch about hex-based games during turn calculations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Well, not slamming SP:WaW, but I have both CM and SP on my HDD, and honestly, I've played CM's two scenarios more than I've even looked at SP. Yes, Matrix has worked long and hard on revitalizing 5 year old code, but it just doesn't do any thing for me anymore. It's like buying a Windows compatible DOOM II, when there is Quake. Bitmaps vs polygons. I'll take polygons over bitmaps anyday. On the other hand, I think CM gets a bad rap on other Forums and Communities for not covering more of the War than just June '44 to May '45. But of course, as most of us veteran members know, that BTS plans to cover the rest of the ETO. So what do you do??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 Steve no prob, I don't want anything negative effecting CM so I will try and ignore those that take popshots at the game Even though this can be tough ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted May 18, 2000 Share Posted May 18, 2000 In cm fan=pitbull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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