Wilhammer Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 I did a search ... no luck. How many feel that the US TDs should carry more HE? From my reading, it seems that the TDs strayed from their planned use and were commonly employed with infantry units for direct fire support. I never have enough HE in my QB TDs for them to be that effective as an infantry support unit. While I am on the subject of US TDs, I have seen pictures of them with light steel turret covers. Was this common? Was it so prevalent that perhaps they should be modeled in CM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 I'd have to disagree with you here. The tank destroyer's primary role is to destroy tanks. If they were used for infantry support, they wouldn't have 76mm guns, they would have the low velocity 75 that sherms do. Therefore, 9-12 HE rounds is about right for the TD to defend itself against inf. Any more, and they would be short on AT or smoke rounds, and would be unable to furfill their primary mission of tank hunter. Yes, TDs were often used for infantry support, just as Sherm 75s were often used for AT work. It turns out that by golly, sometimes tanks have to fight tanks, and TDs have to fight inf. It took a long time for the US to realize this, but eventually, the TD and infantry support tank were merged into one main battle tank, the M26 Pershing. Steel covers were used, but I think they were added on by crews. The open top on TDs is to give the commander a totally unobstructed view, although it does make the tank vulnerable to small arms and grenades. Also, I think the top was left open so the gun could depress more. That way, TDs could park on a reverse slope and shoot from hull down. If the top was closed, the gun wouldn't be able to depress far enough. ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. -Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aacooper Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 Sometimes TDs were used as artillery pieces, i.e. "fire a bunch of HE towards town X". For example, the 893d Tank Destroyer battalion had been used so much in that role in Normandy, its commander was very reluctant to mix it up during the second battle of Schmidt. That doesn't mean the ammo load-out for a brawling CM-style fight is inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wilhammer: I did a search ... no luck. How many feel that the US TDs should carry more HE?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't I fully agree that they were often used as infantry support and many/most/maybe99% of them carried more HE to support this task. But CM models paper TO&E AFAIK, otherwise you could argue there should be a 2nd/3rd BAR in every US squad, because apparently many squads picked one up. In home-made scenarios in which TDs are being used for direct support, I would always give them more HE. For QBs, I don't think it should be changed. ------------------ Andreas <a href="http://www.geocities.com/greg_mudry/sturm.html">Der Kessel</a > Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. [This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 12-06-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 No sane TD commander would offload the AP rounds that are his ONLY protection against tanks just to help out Infantry. TDs WERE used a lot in that role, and the ones who DID frequently came to nasty ends when they tangled with panzers... [This message has been edited by I/O Error (edited 12-06-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Christensen Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 The Zaloga and Squadron books on US TDs both show pictures of 7th Army M10s being fitted with steel armour roofs. These grew out of bad experience with airbursts. According to the captions, the armour was added systematically, using a common design by the 7th Army resources, rather than in the field by crews. Those pictures happen to be of 813th TDs, which were my Dad's battalion. I've also seen a picture that my Dad took of an 813th M36 with a similar cover. (They re-outfitted with M36s after Nordwind. Many of the US TD units were comprised of artilarymen, and it was their initiative that got the TDs frequently used in indirect fire roles. They fired a lot more HE than AP, largely because the Germans really didn't have a lot of amour. TDs doing indirect fire though, would not be interesting Combat Mission. Kevin Christensen Lawrence, KS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 Perhaps it would be possible to add some more American units to refelct some of these realities. The same way you can get a JgPxIV with or without skirts, it would be nice to be able to get some US TDs with the ability to button up wih a cover. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin Christensen: The Zaloga and Squadron books on US TDs both show pictures of 7th Army M10s being fitted with steel armour roofs. These grew out of bad experience with airbursts. According to the captions, the armour was added systematically, using a common design by the 7th Army resources, rather than in the field by crews. Those pictures happen to be of 813th TDs, which were my Dad's battalion. I've also seen a picture that my Dad took of an 813th M36 with a similar cover. (They re-outfitted with M36s after Nordwind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Could you post the pictures? Did the covers fully enclose the turret, or were they like an awning 2 ft over the turret? If they fully covered the turret, (like an ordinary tank turret), how did the commander look out? Were hatches provided? So many questions... ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. -Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts