Samhain Posted November 10, 2000 Share Posted November 10, 2000 Since so many discussions on the merits of in-game or real-life tactics around here hinge at least in part on whether or not they're deemed gamey in CM, it led me wonder the following. But first, I'd like to say that I greatly enjoy CM and have great admiration for much of its design. Also, in the context of the game, I'm generally only interested in historical accuracy or verisimilitude insofar as it improves gameplay (i.e., the mechanics of the game and how they contribute to fun). I realize of course that others feel rather differently about the issue That said, could the basic 3D viewing interface of CM be considered gamey, at least in larger battles, say of roughly 2000-point forces or more (to pick non-scientifically )? You as the commander have the ability to almost instantaneously view all your force deployments and the surrounding terrain in minute detail, moving from a bird's eye view down to a nearly first-person view. You can follow your troops in battle, even granting full fog of war, across all different points of the map with extreme ease, leaping from one spot to another, and then actually getting to replay each minute of the battle myriad times to get a better idea of how to react during the next turn. From a game design standpoint, I think this, coupled with the hybrid turn system (clearly unrealistic since you can't stop or rewind time in real life), borders on brilliance. But would a real commander of multiple companies or even battalions during that era have such a god-like grasp of the situation? (I'm don't claim to be even an armchair or amateur historian, though I'm of course interested in WWII.) I imagine that if the answer to this question is no, then you could explain away these aspects of the interface as an abstraction that indirectly represents study of existing maps, pre-engagement recon that's not represented during the game battle, radio communication, etc. That's what I imagine to the be the case, and it seems reasonable, but is the power it grants perhaps too extreme from the standpoint of realistically simulating combat on this scale? I ask this not to condemn these aspects of the game (I love them!), but out of a "philosophical" interest in game design. ------------------ Hope you got your things together, Hope you are quite prepared to die. --CCR [This message has been edited by Samhain (edited 11-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted November 10, 2000 Share Posted November 10, 2000 Have a look at this thread: Feature Request: Point Line-of-Site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted November 11, 2000 Share Posted November 11, 2000 I would answer your question this way: It is true that the players can see more and control more than would be in real life, but this is still a game and there has to be a certain amount of player envolvement to keep ones interest. I do not like the games that have been published where you simply push a button and then sit back and watch a scenario play itself. I have to have more to do than watch to keep my interest. As you may know, CM is the result of many years attempt to come up with a computerized version of Avalon Hill's Squad Leader and I think the results have payed off. Squad Leader is a game that simulates tactical ground combat in WWII better than any other commercial wargame. It envolves the players in every action of the game and player skill is the one determining factor for success. CM is the same. Victory or defeat is in the hands of each player and the more skilled player will win more often than lose. Therefore to play this game to the best of your ability you must be able to see and control your forces and the battlefield. You do have the option to play this game from camera view 1 and many play it that way for a change of pace but I do not think the game is as interesting when played this way. CM is a game, not real life. ------------------ Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnno Posted November 11, 2000 Share Posted November 11, 2000 Off topic, sorry, but thanks Wayne I was looking for this Quote: Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight. - Private Jackson (The Snipers Prayer from Saving Private Ryan.) Visit my website: Dogs of War http://persweb.direct.ca/johnnocm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted November 12, 2000 Share Posted November 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Johnno: Off topic, sorry, but thanks Wayne I was looking for this Quote: Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight. - Private Jackson (The Snipers Prayer from Saving Private Ryan.) Visit my website: Dogs of War http://persweb.direct.ca/johnnocm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Comes from PSALM 144:1. He also quoted verse 2 which says, "My goodness and my fortress; my high tower,and my deliverer". A very good book. ------------------ Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted November 13, 2000 Share Posted November 13, 2000 As long as the TacAI can't handle company or platoon orders placed by the player, then there's no idea to change the view options. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnno Posted November 29, 2000 Share Posted November 29, 2000 Whoops sorry, wrong post...(embarrassed) [This message has been edited by Johnno (edited 11-28-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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