My 2 cents!!

[IDF]

Fellas,

I've just spent some time playing the demo and I must say, I am most impressed!!! Fantastic graphics, sound, execution. I do have extensive WW2 wargaming experience Steel Panthers, Close Combat 2,3, Sudden Strike(demo), Hidden & Dangerous, 101 Airborne in Normandy etc etc It reminds me of CC2 but just 3D. I can honestly say that I agree with Scottld's Review.

However I must comment that despite all the talk going on about machine gun effectivness, which I have read. I must say that I think overall Infantry units are too invulnarble. While playing the demo I had 2 Shermans, 50 cal, M1919, 60 motar and about 3-4 infantry squads pouring fire onto about 6 German Infantry units who were positioned in the woods and casulties were far and few between. To me this is something of concern!!!! Especially as they <100m away!!

[Knaust]

IDF....are you IDF?

[Renaud]

IDF:

You think you like it now...wait till you get the full version and get to play the quick-battles.

As far as infantry toughness, I recently played a QB with a reinforced US infantry company attacking veteran german infantry entrenched in a town with light armor and loads of well-sited AT & heavy machine gun teams.

In support I had 3 m10's, 2 sp 105's, a recon screen, heavy mg's, 155mm battery and 82mm mortar battery in support. I moved forward with utmost caution, using scout teams and recon vehicles fanning out far forward of the main force. I located enemy resistance and used the traditional US method: blast the bejesus out of em.

Anyway, the germans were exceedingly tough to root out from their positions. I had to blast buildings and foxholes apart one by one while my infantry crept forward taking out MG nests one by one with hand to hand combat. I finally had to close assault behind a heavy smoke screen while a 155mm barrage battered the center of town.

Everything i've read about wwII fits in with this scenario. HE and massed small arms fire alone will often fail to unhinge a well-situated foe. In fact, I think BTS has increased actual expected casualty rates quite a lot for purposes of enhancing fun and excitement and to maintain a reasonably short game scenario time length. In reality the firepower at my disposal in this scenario was trifling compared to what most allied attacks mustered at this scale. And in many of those historical situations germans rose from the rubble, tilted their AT guns/MG42's back upright, and decimated allied forces. There are loads of examples of veteran infantry holding out even after their defensive positions looked like moonscapes...villers-bocage...red devils at Arnhem...german paratroops at monte cassino...etc. It's important to note I was fighting veteran troops...they would continue to man positions in many cases after the buildings collapsed around them. Regular or below will flee and be cut down once out of position if enough firepower is put on them.

Casualty rates in given situations feel right to me, allowing for the fact that they have been increased from what was historical to make the game more playable within 10-60 minute game-turn times.

Sincerely,

Ren

[Fionn]

1. FOW means you might have caused a LOT more casualties than you currently think you caused.

Personally I'd expect the sort of force you have there to cause roughly 50% casualties over the course of 2 to 3 minutes at the type of range you are talking about ( assuming the Germans are in foxholes in the woods). Of course, you might only see about 25% of that 50% directly and would simply have to extrapolate the rest until you send infantry into the woods and gutshoot the survivors.

[IDF]

Knaust what do you mean?

[IDF]

I guess after playing VOT I take back my statement about infantry being invulnerable. Also I just realised that a squad of 3 is really 10-12 men not 3 as represented and that's where I may have erred making my previous judgment.