Operations

[Clavicula_Nox]

Not sure if this is the right forum, and sorry for the n00b question.

I'm currently playing the Arnhem-Red Devils operation and have a question about the way deployment zones are setup.

I have fought a day battle and night battle with very few causalties, less than 30 total and only 13 KIA, as opposed to my AI axis opponent with 160+ KIA/WIA and several vehicles knocked out. I have around 2 companies in the buildings straddling the Arnhem side of the bridge and they have not moved except for designated teams assigned to tank killing duty. I also have a platoon or so of engineers on my left flank that obliterated some random armor vehicle and a platoon of infantry. The men of Col Frost's battalion have basically swept arnhem clean and at the end of the first night, have stopped all attacks cold.

Why then, does Day 2 Battle 3 open up and most of the battalion is at the edge of the map? The only teams close to their original positions are 2 mortar teams that are, luckily, to the rear of those cruical buildings and have, thankfully, generated a small deployment zone around them. This gives me the impression of a force that is being pushed back and making a fighting retreat, when no such thing is happening. As it is, I have to run most of these guys to the positions they were occupying perhaps only a few hours before.

Now I can understand if I was taking moderate or heavy casualities, or if they suddenly had halftracks and panzergrenadiers knocking on my door...but they don't. They have roughly 8 halftracks taking turns trying to run across the bridge and get whacked from behind, and maybe around a company worth of panzergrenadiers and "Security squads" left over from their suicidal lemming rush across the bridge. Unless they get some reinforcements in the way of armored vehicles bigger than Pumas..then it looks like Market-Garden is going to succede (Someone tell Gen Horrock to go ahead and let his tanks roll out).

So, my question is this: Why is the simulated push-back so dramatic that my forces are literally forced to the edge of town from positions they have solidly held for 2 battles? Is there something I could be doing better to prevent this, or is it unavoidable?

[Kingfish]

There is nothing you can do, as it is (and has been) a problem with the way CM redraws the front lines in Ops. The computer is programmed to redraw the line starting from the attacking unit which had advanced the farthest. From that it will add the no man's land setting, which in this op is 400 meters (a bit extreme IMO). The fact that the Paras are surrounded means every redraw will result in your forces being pushed to the edge.

[Clavicula_Nox]

That sucks.

At any rate, It's Battle 6, Day 3 and Lt Col Frost's battalion has stopped cold every single attack. I haven't deployed yet and am taking a break, but they tried rushing across the bridge with all their halftracks + 2 light armored vehicles. Fortunately, I was prepared, and had several PIAT teams, engineer squads, and Gammon bomb equipped paras waiting in ambush. In just 3 turns, all of their vehicles were destroyed with the exception of one that "only" lost it's gunner which forced the driver to make a hasty retreat.

What looks like a platoon of regular Wehrmacht, the shattered remains of 1 or 2 platoons of Waffen SS, and a squad or two of "Security" tried following behind the halftracks. To their dismay, 2 platoons of Paras, 2 mortars, and 1 Vickers MG cut them to ribbons.

With the opening of Day 3, Arnhem is secure and they no longer have any foothold on the bridge (in the previous battle, they had their surviving halftrack deploy to the side of the bridge).

I would go ahead and call Market Garden a success. Now where is General Horrocks and XXX Corps?

I would say that if the Operation lasted another Day or 2 with no further reinforcements or re-supply on my part, and they received a company, then I would probably fold on the second day due to lack of ammunition.

On another note, is it normal to have a single PIAT team armed with 6 shells score 6 kills, 4 halftracks, 1 random light armor vehicle, and 1 MG bunker? Would that team justify some form of award? If so, what?

I literally haven't played this game in years, and despite having CM:SF and CMBB, this has always been my favorite..and now I remember why.

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by Clavicula_Nox:

That sucks.

Yes it does.

Now where is General Horrocks and XXX Corps?

Lets see, third day, they would just be arriving at Nijmegan.

I would say that if the Operation lasted another Day or 2 with no further reinforcements or re-supply on my part, and they received a company, then I would probably fold on the second day due to lack of ammunition.

Historically, it lasted another 2 days for the bridge defenders, and the Germans received far more than a company of reinforcements.

On another note, is it normal to have a single PIAT team armed with 6 shells score 6 kills, 4 halftracks, 1 random light armor vehicle, and 1 MG bunker? Would that team justify some form of award? If so, what?

No, it is not normal, even against the AI. I'd guess he'd be up for a VC.

[Clavicula_Nox]

I miscalculated my battles, I still have one more day and night battle.

I think I'm going to crack open the editor and give the Axis more reinforcements as well as reduce the re-draw. I haven't spent any time looking into it, but does anyone know off-hand a general guide for how many german troops were deployed to take the bridge and when?

As for my VC bazooka team, they are still racking up kills, and it will be interesting to see where they stop. The next couple of battles will be tense as I'm pretty low on ammunition and the majority of their infantry is low on men but high on ammo.

Lets see, third day, they would just be arriving at Nijmegan.

Maybe somebody could tell Carrington to hit the accelerator and get his column moving, eh?

Historically, it lasted another 2 days for the bridge defenders, and the Germans received far more than a company of reinforcements.

Yeah, if I recall, it was Bittrich's entire division as well as miscellaneous forces. As an American, I have a lot of respect for the 1st Paras for the stand they made on Arnhem bridge. It certainly says a lot about their national character.

Here is another question. I have read that the Gammon grenades were very useful in destroying armor targets, but have not noticed a single vehicle kill with these grenades in game. Are the articles I'm reading inaccurate, or is the game inaccurate? So far, I've only seen them thrown at halftracks and light armored cars.

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by Clavicula_Nox:

I think I'm going to crack open the editor and give the Axis more reinforcements as well as reduce the re-draw.

You won't be able to do it while playing the game, if that is what you mean. The best you can do is make the changes, save it, then start a new game.

I haven't spent any time looking into it, but does anyone know off-hand a general guide for how many german troops were deployed to take the bridge and when?

A quick google search on several websites mentions at least 3 Mk IVs, a couple of Pz IIIs (I assume the 'N' variant with the short 75mm) and two King Tigers, although not all arrived on the same day and in the same sector. No doubt there were others, including StuGs and Halftracks. To that the Germans added alot of artillery from both tube and mortar, which from the 19th onward kept up a steady and heavy barrage on the small perimeter. They even used Phosphorus rounds, which had the effect of starting fires in just about every occupied building and forcing the abandonment of a few positions.

Here is another question. I have read that the Gammon grenades were very useful in destroying armor targets, but have not noticed a single vehicle kill with these grenades in game. Are the articles I'm reading inaccurate, or is the game inaccurate? So far, I've only seen them thrown at halftracks and light armored cars.

You might be mistaking the ordinary grenade for the Gammon bomb, which a few squads carry. The Gammon bomb would certainly destroy anything the Germans deploy in the Op, including the King Tigers, but the attacking unit must be within 15-20 meters to throw it. Although the Gammon bomb was historically a round object, the game's graphics will show it as a yellow square when thrown (Gammon bombs share the same graphic as demo charges).

[Kingfish]

Something else that should be mentioned, now that we are talking about each side's forces, is that the Paras had the support of a few 6 pdr AT guns which had managed to make it into the perimeter before the Germans closed the routes. I've read of at least 3, which were in action at least up to the 19th, maybe all the way to the end.