Aircraft not spotting per designer notes.

[Erwin]

Playing a lot of CMSF2 and many missions advise the player to use aircraft to spot and take out enemy units - esp ATGM's - before one makes one's assault.  But, I have found that the aircraft rarely locate an ATGM (they are bit better with tanks).  Not sure if this is yet another CMSF bug, or the game does not simulate well the ability of aircraft to spot leg units - even after 20+ minutes.  Experienced similar issues with drones in CMBS.  They rarely work as advertised.  

Edited May 24 by Erwin

[wolfgang500]

Isn´t that the case with drones in real live, too? A tank is hard to conceal in the age of thermal sights, but two guys with a ATGM in a foxhole? Maybe I´m in retirement too long to be able to judge that correctly

[Erwin]

You may be correct.  My concern is that I have played a several missions where the design notes glibly instruct/advise the player to send out aircraft or drones to locate the enemy ATGM's and/or tanks, and destroy them so that one can move up one's own AFV's.  My experience is that the aircraft can see very little if anything even after loitering for 20-25 minutes and then go back to base.  That means waiting another 7-12 minutes to order the aircraft back - to repeat the useless procedure.

Am playing the German Campaign in CMSF2 and mission 12(?) presents this situation.  After 30 minutes of using arty to pummel suspected ATGM positions plus the aircraft seeming to shoot at a couple locations, I moved out my KG and promptly got 3 AFV and IFV (+passengers) KIA by 4 or 5 ATGM's that were unspotted.  The ATGM's died within seconds of firing, but that was cold comfort.  

It feels as if this tactic of sending out aircraft to spot and kill ATGM's was not playtested, as it it doesn't work even though those are the instructions in the briefing.

[ALBY]

My JTAC or AC will usually point target’ for areas I want bombed (I still have issues getting the weapons to release sometimes). I don’t think you can rely on air assets to find small teams on the ground, but otoh, 2000 lb bombs don’t require ‘great’ accuracy so imho, pick a spot and drop a bomb on it. 
 

 

[Erwin]

3 hours ago, ALBY said:

pick a spot and drop a bomb on it.

Yes, Point Target gets a better chance of an attack.  But, one still has to spot the ATGM first as they could be hiding anywhere.  My take is that designers should avoid making missions which rely on aircraft spotting and killing leg teams (eg: ATGM's) as this tactic does not work in CM. 

Am replaying mission 12 of the German Campaign and this time letting the aircraft loiter for a full hour b4 assaulting.  The scenario is long, 2.5 hours, so we'll see if a longer time works for air spotting.  However... just sitting around and pressing GO for 60 turns does not make for a fun game experience.  

[ALBY]

I’m not an air whiz, but sometimes a couple things can improve their actual effect.  YMMV, but I have found that bringing multiple aircraft on station in the same target area does not increase chances of engaging and may reduce. The assets appear to de-conflict and nobody shoots. OTOH, a drone illuminating targets piloted by the same spotter who is bringing the air will increase the asset effect.  
 

Edited May 26 by ALBY

[ALBY]

I agree that nobody wants to play ‘CM:  Logistics edition tm ‘.