kverdon Posted July 31, 2000 Share Posted July 31, 2000 Ok, I know this has been hashed over before. I have searched before (I can't seem to do a search now, if I do the browser locks up, IE 5.5 problem????). I've got a few questions/clarifications on Indirect fire, both Onboard Mortars and Offboard Arty. I've read the manual and previous searchs and am still a bit confused. Please bear with me and see if I'm getting this correct. On Board Mortar Indirct Fire: If I'm getting this right, if you have mortar units on the map they may fire at units out of thier LOS IF they are in command range of Leader that has a LOS to the Target. Is this correct? The manual makes a reference to on board mortars not being able to fire indirectly if they have moved from their initial positions? Can mortars move and still indirect fire at a unit in the LOS of a Leader that they are in command range to? OFF Board ARTY/Spotters: It is mentioned in the manual that a Company Commander can call for off board arty if the Spotter for that Arty is eliminated. Is this correct? If so, then how do you do it? Also, Lets say you are assigned both a 81mm Spotter and a 155mm spotter in a scenario and the both get eliminated. If the Company Co, can call for off/board arty, then which battery would he get? Thanks for clearing this up. A friend of mine and I have been scratching our heads over this and thanks for bearing with the question. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsinO Posted July 31, 2000 Share Posted July 31, 2000 Hey, Well I can answer your first set of questions, but not the second one. 1.) <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>if you have mortar units on the map they may fire at units out of thier LOS IF they are in command range of Leader that has a LOS to the Target.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is CORRECT. To prove it, try making your own mini-map to test it out... 2.) <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The manual makes a reference to on board mortars not being able to fire indirectly if they have moved from their initial positions? Can mortars move and still indirect fire at a unit in the LOS of a Leader that they are in command range to? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Kevin, mortars can ALWAYS move and still have indirect fire at a unit out of LOS but in LOS of there unit HQ. What the manual was talking about was TRP (Target Reference Points). Only TRP's cannot be fired at indirectly if the mortar has moved. For more info on TRP's look at the bottom of page 89. As for the OFF board Arty questions, I do not know about this.. Where does it say that a Company Commander can call in arty if the spotter is dead? Maybe someone else can clear this up.. ------------------ ¤§ïѤ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Khann Posted July 31, 2000 Share Posted July 31, 2000 OFF Board ARTY/Spotters: It is mentioned in the manual that a Company Commander can call for off board arty if the Spotter for that Arty is eliminated. Is this correct? If so, then how do you do it? <hr> If this is correct, I'd really like to know about it. Not that I'm exceptionally talented at getting my FO's killed or anything... well, o.k., maybe sometimes. Papa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted July 31, 2000 Share Posted July 31, 2000 Kverdon said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It is mentioned in the manual that a Company Commander can call for off board arty if the Spotter for that Arty is eliminated. Is this correct? If so, then how do you do it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Do you have a page number? I don't recall seeing this. I do recall that in the course of general discussions, it's been mentioned on this board a few times that in real life, company commanders often had a radio in touch with the arty instead of having a real FO attached to the company. And thus, the CM spotter units represent both actual FOs and company officers calling fire. ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kverdon Posted August 1, 2000 Author Share Posted August 1, 2000 I;ll have to check that in the manual. Funny thing is both my friend and I seem to remeber reading it. thanks, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kverdon Posted August 1, 2000 Author Share Posted August 1, 2000 Ok, maybe I AM going nuts, I reread the manual and cannot find a reference to Company Co's filling in for Arty Spotters. I must have read it here. Both my friend and I know we read it somewhere. Maybe it was an idea for a proposed change?? thanks, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kverdon Posted August 1, 2000 Author Share Posted August 1, 2000 Got search working at home (still locks up the PC at work and found this about the mortars from an earlier thread about mortars. Thanks to MadMatt for the following: Kevin *************************************************************** Ok ok ok, Perhaps it is time to explain how this works ONCE AND FOR ALL... Turn on your thinking caps children as its schooling time. Think of this as a mini FAQ on Onboard Indirect Mortar Procedure and TRP Useage!!! This process is called Onboard Indirect Fire, or OIF for short, and it works slightly different from the FULL VERSION and the DEMO. Since the full version will very likely be shipping soon that is what I am going to focus on although I will mention the difference between the two as there is only one... First off, what do you need to have to make this work? A mortar team IN COMMAND from a HQ unit, any HQ unit! If multiple HQ's are in the vicinity and within command radius the HIGHEST RANKING unit will take command. Once the mortar is within command if may fire at ANY AREA AND UNIT(in the demo he may ONLY fire at areas and NOT units, that is the difference!) within Line of Sight (LOS) of the HQ unit. Can the mortar team MOVE and still perform OIF? Yes as long as he stays within valid command radius of the HQ and the HQ's maintains its LOS to the target area or unit. Can the HQ unit Move and still provide spotting and command to the mortar team performing OIF? Yes, again as long as he can see the target and maintains command of the mortar team. What happens if command and control (C&C) is broken between the HQ AND/OR LOS to the target is broken (due to smoke, the HQ moving etc...)while the mortar team is firing OIF? The mortar team will cease fire immediately. It will resume firing within the same turn if C&C to the HQ unit, LOS to the target or both (depending on what caused the unit to cease firing) is re-established. Can a HQ provide spotting and command for multiple mortar teams? Yes, again so long as he has a LOS to the target and the teams are within his command radius he may command as many mortar teams as can fit into this command radius. Can multiple mortar teams that are under C&C of a single HQ unit fire on multiple targets? Yes, the targeting is actually done (drawn out from) the individual team. So, how DO I target OIF? Man, you ask allot of dumb questions don't you? Ok, Here is how you do it: First tuck your mortar team(s) somewhere nice and safe and preferably on a reverse slope or behind a building. Then get a HQ unit close enough to provide C&C and also with a good LOS to expected enemy axis of advance or strongpoint. During the orders turn you can use the LOS tool FROM THE HQ, to view what he can see. Anything that is within his Valid LOS (a blue line in the LOS tool) is a valid target for the mortar teams. To target, select the mortar team, select the Target option (T KEY) and then drag the targeting line out to the area (demo only: see below) or unit you wish to target. Since the target is out of LOS the tool will say SIGHT BLOCKED. However when you 'select' the target or area (left click) the target bar will STICK and show a targeted area fire line. When you see that the team will fire. In the demo, why can't a mortar OIF target a UNIT? In the demo, when you target a specific unit you are in essence telling the mortar team to wait until the targeted unit comes into LOS of the team regardless of if the HQ can see them or not. This was changed in the Full Version and now when you target a unit out of LOS using OIF the method of firing will actually SWITCH to area fire for you. Basically it will target the ground UNDER the unit and not the unit itself but ONLY when firing with OIF(see below)! Won't this effect the ability to target moving targets that are within the Mortars teams LOS? No, since the game can now differentiate between a target out of LOS from the team, but within LOS of the HQ, and targets that can be seen BY the team. If a mortar team can SEE a target they will adjust fire on it automatically if the target moves. Adjusted fire in not preformed if they are firing OIF. But remember, we are only talking about 60 seconds here and if a targeted unit has passed beyond the barrage zone you can simply retarget the units new position and resume firing ,assuming the enemy is still within LOS of the HQ. What happens if my mortar team is in C&C to a HQ but the target is within the teams LOS? The mortar team will fire on the target using it's normal DIRECT FIRE which will obviously be more accurate and will not require the HQ unit for C&C or spotting. What are TRP's? These are Target Reference Points and basically are areas PRE-SIGHTED for fire from offboard and onboard mortars. What are the advantages of a TRP? Faster reaction time (for offboard arty) and MUCH GREATER accuracy for both onboard mortars and offboard arty. How do I use a TRP? For offboard artillery you would target the TRP with the assigned spotter. For onboard mortars, you would target the TRP from the team itself. Do I need to have LOS to the TRP? No, this is NOT required since the target area has been pre-plotted prior to the battle. How do I place a TRP? This is done in the setup phase and it is moved and placed just like any normal unit. One thing make note of is that TRP's can be placed OUTSIDE of the normal colored setup area. This effectively means you can pre-sight ANY spot on the map for your mortars and offboard artillery. Do I need a HQ unit to fire on a TRP? No, the mortar team does not need a HQ to fire on a TRP since they already have the co-ordinates for this area setup. Can a mortar team Move and still target a TRP? No, once you move, all those fancy trajectory calculations and ballistics formulas your team had to that TRP are screwed up. You said above that if I moved my mortar team they couldn't fire on a TRP but I tried this and they DID fire on it!! Does this mean you are wrong? Why you little punk! I outa pull out my whipping stick and whack you one! The reason the team was able to fire was due to one of two things occurring: 1). The TRP was in fact within LOS of the team itself and what they were doing was firing normal direct Area Fire or 2). The TRP was within a HQ's LOS which had C&C to the mortar team and they were actually firing OIF at that area. This type of fire will not be as accurate as normal TRP targeted fire. Don't EVER doubt me again PUNK! Can a spotter move and still target a TRP? Yes... Can dual purpose and direct fire infantry guns, onboard (88's, 105's, sIG', quad 20mm's etc..) target the TRP and more importantly gain the accuracy benefit? If they can see it they can target it (DOH!) but they do not IIRC gain any special accuracy benefit from it. TRP's are meant for offboard artillery assets and mortars. WHY??? Cause I said so! Can spotter for offboard artillery target a area outside of their valid LOS? Yes, but expect the pattern to be fairly scattered and there may (again, I need to verify this) be an added delay on the firing time. Can a spotter that is under C&C from an HQ unit spot 'through' the HQ like the mortar teams above? Umm, NO! Now, is that CLEAR??? Madmatt p.s. DAMN, I spent all that time spellchecking this and I go and spell 'Procedure' wrong in the Thread title!! DOH!!! ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts